Upgrade, downgrade, or the same

[psbfan9]

This is what I have now, 4 Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 450's used as front L/R and surrounds. Have a Deftech 2002 center all powered by an Onkyo 608.

I was thinking of getting a pair of Infinity Primus P362's for front L/R.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P362BG/Infinity-Primus-P362.html?tp=185

And an Infinity PC350 center.

Infinity PC350 (Black grille) Center channel speaker at Crutchfield.com

And continue to use one pair of the Deftech SM 450's for surrounds.

Now with the EMP sale, I'm thinking of getting these;

EMP E5TiR 5.1 Tower System

Or

EMP E55TiR Tower System II

Any thoughts? Should I just keep what I have? Are the other systems I listed an upgrade, downgrade or the same as my current setup?

If I get the Infinity's or the lower priced EMP system I was going to add a new receiver and Emotiva amp (XPA-3) to replace the Onkyo.

Thanks!

 

[ski2xblack]

This is what I have now, 4 Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 450's used as front L/R and surrounds. Have a Deftech 2002 center all powered by an Onkyo 608.

I was thinking of getting a pair of Infinity Primus P362's for front L/R.

Infinity Primus P362 Single floor-standing speaker at Crutchfield.com

And an Infinity PC350 center.

Infinity PC350 (Black grille) Center channel speaker at Crutchfield.com

And continue to use one pair of the Deftech SM 450's for surrounds.

Now with the EMP sale, I'm thinking of getting these;

EMP E5TiR 5.1 Tower System

Or

EMP E55TiR Tower System II

Any thoughts? Should I just keep what I have?

Thanks!

What specific improvements are you shooting for?

While the Infinities spec very well and come highly recommended in these parts, I'm not sure you'll get more musical satisfaction from them as your DT monitors, which are very nice. Also, I would never exchange sufficient performance with decent aesthetics for vinyl clad speakers, it just wouldn't get by SWMBO's radar no matter how good they sound.

Most of what you inquire about seem to be lateral moves. The big improvements are with your room and speakers, so that should be your focus. Significant improvements from what you currently have will cost more than the options you have listed. I see a sub is conspicuously absent from your system description, which will add more than any lateral speaker 'upgrade' will give. What are you running sub wise?

 

[zieglj01]

As far as an upgrade, that would be subjective - why do you want to upgrade.
I do not see a major up or down grade from your list - I would spend more on
speakers, than something to drive them with.
Do you have a way to audition anything. You can always buy a pair of book
shelf speakers, to sample the sound - then exchange them for a system if
you like them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The SM450 were reviewed by The Audio Critic, and they measured accurately, so I doubt you will get any improvements. They compared the SM450 tweeter and midrange to the B&W 800 Matrix, which was also an accurate speaker (I don't know what happened to B&W since the 800 Matrix).

I say just keep what you have.

Just have that itch, huh?

What's really going on?

You can tell me the truth since I'm a DefTech alumni.

I think you need to start a "dream speaker fund". Instead of buying little things here and there that doesn't really mount to anything significant, save up some big money over 2 yrs and get a dream speaker system for say 30%-40% off retail? Sound good? Let's start a new thread and title it something like "My Dream System Search".

 

[psbfan9]

What specific improvements are you shooting for?
I see a sub is conspicuously absent from your system description, which will add more than any lateral speaker 'upgrade' will give. What are you running sub wise?

I thought I would like to replace the bookshelf speakers with towers thinking it may look better in my room. But still wanting the sound that my SM 450's put out. The sub is an 'Audio Pro Sub Evidence MKII'. You're right, I need to think more about room improvements. I just made that point to some one else. Thanks for reminding me!
I think I should consider a new sub. A more musical than 'BOOMING' sub.

http://www.audiopro.com/sites/audiopro.com/files/expired_product_folders/SubEvidence_MKII_productinfo_eng.pdf

I do not see a major up or down grade from your list - I would spend more on
speakers, than something to drive them with.

Okay. This makes sense. What sucks is you are 100% correct, I was trying to 'cheat' and get that dream speaker on a budget. I have been around here long enough to know that I have to pay more to get good speakers.

The SM450 were reviewed by The Audio Critic, and they measured accurately, so I doubt you will get any improvements. They compared the SM450 tweeter and midrange to the B&W 800 Matrix, which was also an accurate speaker (I don't know what happened to B&W since the 800 Matrix).

I say just keep what you have.

Just have that itch, huh?

What's really going on?

You can tell me the truth since I'm a DefTech alumni.

I think you need to start a "dream speaker fund". Instead of buying little things here and there that doesn't really mount to anything significant, save up some big money over 2 yrs and get a dream speaker system for say 30%-40% off retail? Sound good? Let's start a new thread and title it something like "My Dream System Search".

You hit the nail on the head. I just wanted something different. You suggested I get the SM 450's and they are the best speaker I have ever had. But yeah, that itch is killing me. I just want something different.

The savings, and patience, for that dream speaker system start now!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

In case of upgradisis emergency - add a second sub

p.s: does your 608 have pre-outs? ??

 

[psbfan9]

In case of upgradisis emergency - add a second sub

p.s: does your 608 have pre-outs? ??

HaHa.. I have been looking at new subs.

Pre outs for an external amp? No. I'm considering a Yamaha 867 with an Emotiva XPA-3. It does have pre outs for two subs.

 

[Adam]

HaHa.. I have been looking at new subs.

Pre outs for an external amp? No. I'm considering a Yamaha 867 with an Emotiva XPA-3. It does have pre outs for two subs.

Not to stop you from buying new gear , but your 608 has two subwoofer outputs (I'm guessing that you knew that, but just in case).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You hit the nail on the head. I just wanted something different. You suggested I get the SM 450's and they are the best speaker I have ever had. But yeah, that itch is killing me. I just want something different.

The savings, and patience, for that dream speaker system start now!

I know what you mean. DenPureSound is in the same situation right now.

I told him not to spend another dime. It's too easy to spend $20 here, $50 there, $100 here, $500 there. It won't do it. You want that dream system.

Beatmatcher got his dream PSB Synchrony One system @ 30-40% off retail.

Docks got his dream Paradigm S8 system @ discount price.

DenPureSound is thinking about getting his dream KEF R900 system @30% off retail.

PENG is thinking about getting his dream Paradigm S6 system or Synchrony One system.

So don't buy a single thing until you have everything figured out and a fund saved up.

First, do you feel like you must have speakers that measure extremely accurately or just speakers that sound great to you?

For example, I loved my old DefTech BP7000 system, but they did not measure as accurately as the SM450 or the Infinity P362! That fact bothered me a lot. Everyone has a different criteria, and my criteria for dream speakers included that the speakers have to not only sound great, but they have to measure great.

So define your criteria for your dream speakers and then let's talk the options.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

HaHa.. I have been looking at new subs.

Pre outs for an external amp? No. I'm considering a Yamaha 867 with an Emotiva XPA-3. It does have pre outs for two subs.

No, I didn't mean pre-outs for two subs - I mean for other channels.
Sub .1 to .2 is simple y-cable, nothing more...
but ACD is right. Step back. think what you have what your real big picture goal is. then start saving....

I got pretty average system, but hey properly configured it's not that bad...
Next step for me is easy - buying a house and yes - that will require much more financial planning than a new sub

 

[lsiberian]

As far as an upgrade, that would be subjective - why do you want to upgrade.
I do not see a major up or down grade from your list - I would spend more on
speakers, than something to drive them with.
Do you have a way to audition anything. You can always buy a pair of book
shelf speakers, to sample the sound - then exchange them for a system if
you like them.

Just remember that price does not equate to quality with speakers. You really want a good reputation and quality engineering.

Infinity P362s have among the best bass drivers in the market, but are weaker in the tweeter range IMO. They are certainly great speakers, but I'm not sure they'd be a real upgrade.

Unless we are talking Salk's or B&Ws I'd be inclined to stay put.

 

[DenPureSound]

I know what you mean. DenPureSound is in the same situation right now.

I told him not to spend another dime. It's too easy to spend $20 here, $50 there, $100 here, $500 there. It won't do it. You want that dream system.

Beatmatcher got his dream PSB Synchrony One system @ 30-40% off retail.

Docks got his dream Paradigm S8 system @ discount price.

DenPureSound is thinking about getting his dream KEF R900 system @30% off retail.

PENG is thinking about getting his dream Paradigm S6 system or Synchrony One system.

So don't buy a single thing until you have everything figured out and a fund saved up.

First, do you feel like you must have speakers that measure extremely accurately or just speakers that sound great to you?

For example, I loved my old DefTech BP7000 system, but they did not measure as accurately as the SM450 or the Infinity P362! That fact bothered me a lot. Everyone has a different criteria, and my criteria for dream speakers included that the speakers have to not only sound great, but they have to measure great.

So define your criteria for your dream speakers and then let's talk the options.

Exactly, it is amazing how many people have speakers that do not measure well, and they like the sound and some think that nothing is missing either and they love their speakers. That all falls right into the PsychoAcoustics domain, how the ears/brain become trained to like the sound over time.

I like my Klipsch RF-82II's, but they are shrilling on the horns, and certainly missing a lot of the music in the Mid-Range, and their are NO Plots on them either, wonder why and we all know why.

So let's see, what constitutes a pair of front "DREAM SPEAKERS"?

In my case, with $1500 in the Denon 4311, and $900 into the EMO XPA-5, plus some monoprice cables, say total = $2500 and that does not include the new gigaport switch/router/bd player, more cables... but for the sake of it say $2500.

Say Dream Speakers should be around 60%, and equip. 40% or so. Then that means my front main DREAMS should be around = $ 3750

So, next question, is that in my budget (not the way the stock mkt. is now or has been for a while).. interesting as that is just about where a new pair of KEF R Series, R900 towers are at!!

Now, if I can get that ruler-flat FR pair for say $2K, what should I do, wait or pull the trigger?

Oh, that $2K deal is Aperion Verus Grand Towers at $1800 delivered, and if you do not like them they pay the shipping back! So, you can audition them in your room w/ your acoustics, can't ask for much more ideal situation, for 30 days... and listen, and listen more... and either keep them or call UPS truck for pickup.

Now, I would rather spend $2K instead of $3.6K if I can to get some fine Dream Speakers up front -- but that is my dilemma of where I am at.

Chime in on this one, but I do know I am not getting some $800 fronts!! Need to spend more than that to get great drivers, enclosure, and xovers, and even at $900 per Speaker for Aperion GVT makes me wonder how great they are, when you back out their Shipping Costs, Chinese Labor, Enclosure, Xovers, and Corp. Profit, how much does that leave just for the Drivers?

Will the GVT drivers really be good enough to be called "DREAM SPEAKERS"?

ADTG, and I know that the drivers in the Phil 3's are at around 50% of the cost of each speaker for 3 drivers (woofer/planar/ribbon), and DM has little profit in his Philharmonic's!

 

[DenPureSound]

Just remember that price does not equate to quality with speakers. You really want a good reputation and quality engineering.

Infinity P362s have among the best bass drivers in the market, but are weaker in the tweeter range IMO. They are certainly great speakers, but I'm not sure they'd be a real upgrade.

Unless we are talking Salk's or B&Ws I'd be inclined to stay put.

Wouldn't the Aperion Verus Grand Towers, or the KEF R Series R900, be a Major Step Up for him over his Def. Tech. speakers?

Forget the Infinities as I don't fell those would be a Major Step UP, or I could sale him my Infinity Classias.

PSBFan, How many dollars do you have invested in your AVR and Amp if you have one?

And how much did your front Def. Tech. speakers cost for the Front Pair?

 

[psbfan9]

First, do you feel like you must have speakers that measure extremely accurately or just speakers that sound great to you?
So define your criteria for your dream speakers and then let's talk the options.

The speakers must sound great to me. Then I'll look at measurements.

Step back. think what you have what your real big picture goal is. then start saving....

I got pretty average system, but hey properly configured it's not that bad...

Two very important points. THANKS. I got a little carried away with wanting something new and forgot to appreciate what I already have.

Just remember that price does not equate to quality with speakers. You really want a good reputation and quality engineering.

Infinity P362s have among the best bass drivers in the market, but are weaker in the tweeter range IMO. They are certainly great speakers, but I'm not sure they'd be a real upgrade.

Unless we are talking Salk's.

When I saw the price of P363's I got excited. Then, when I saw th eprice of the P362's, I thought my head was going to explode. The P362 have the exact same specs as the P363's, but are $120.00 cheaper. Thats what lead me to start this thread.
I've been looking at Song Towers. But when I saw prices the other speakers..Well...Here we are...

PSBFan, How many dollars do you have invested in your AVR and Amp if you have one?

And how much did your front Def. Tech. speakers cost for the Front Pair?

The receiver (no amp) was $400.00 and change, the speakers were maybe $650 a pair.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In my case, with $1500 in the Denon 4311, and $900 into the EMO XPA-5...

Say Dream Speakers should be around 60%, and equip. 40% or so. Then that means my front main DREAMS should be around = $ 3750

Denon 4311 is $2100 + XPA5 is $900, total electronics is $3000.

I think "dream" speakers front Left/Right should be $3000 "retail" or more.

If the Aperion Grand sounds like $3K speakers, then sure.

Everyone is different. To those who have auditioned the Verus Grand and think they are only "average" speakers, perhaps the Salk and Philharmonic may be the way to go.

The only way to know is to actually audition some PSB, Paradigm, KEF, B&W, Salk or Philharmonic, and Aperion. Otherwise, you will always be asking the "what if" question forever.

 

[psbfan9]

Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy
So define your criteria for your dream speakers and then let's talk the options.

I listen to all genres of music, From Abba to Zappa with blues, classical, jazz, rap (some, not much) sould/R&B in between. I want a speaker that can keep up with that. I also want it to look good.

When i first started thinking of an upgrade, I was going to get 5 of these; http://www.salksound.com/caow1 - home.htm
It may have taken me a year or more to get all 5. Then I thought maybe I wanted tower/floorstanders.

 

[DenPureSound]

The speakers must sound great to me. Then I'll look at measurements.



Two very important points. THANKS. I got a little carried away with wanting something new and forgot to appreciate what I already have.



When I saw the price of P363's I got excited. Then, when I saw th eprice of the P362's, I thought my head was going to explode. The P362 have the exact same specs as the P363's, but are $120.00 cheaper. Thats what lead me to start this thread.
I've been looking at Song Towers. But when I saw prices the other speakers..Well...Here we are...



The receiver (no amp) was $400.00 and change, the speakers were maybe $650 a pair.

If you can swing just a shade under $2K for Front Mains, take a long hard look at the Aperion Verus Grand Towers -- these are the speakers that meet my specification criteria in measurements, and the few reviews of them are "Out of this Park".

Now, how do they sound? You can order them, set them up in your room w/ your acoustics, listen for 30 days or less, and if you do not like them send them back via FedX at Aperions cost -- hard to really beat that deal.

From all the reports/reviews I have read they are at 4.5 out of 5 Stars, same as ADTG's Revel Salon 2's at 4.5 Stars and they are $22K speakers!!

 

[lsiberian]

Wouldn't the Aperion Verus Grand Towers, or the KEF R Series R900, be a Major Step Up for him over his Def. Tech. speakers?

Forget the Infinities as I don't fell those would be a Major Step UP, or I could sale him my Infinity Classias.

Why not get the JBL LSRs or JTRs?

The P363s have excellent measurements and the Classias have one of the best drivers in the world(infinity MRS). But they are crossed too low. Infinity/JBL/HK is certainly a top brand for speakers.

If I bought speakers they'd be the p363s. The 362s are as good as the 363s.
With a few mods they can be made into a reference speaker.

That being said it is much easier/cheaper to build a 2-way speaker. The DefTech's look pretty solid from what I've read about them. If you have a large room I'd recommend the 362s. If you have a small room the DefTechs probably do the job.

 

[DenPureSound]

Denon 4311 is $2100 + XPA5 is $900, total electronics is $3000.

I think "dream" speakers front Left/Right should be $3000 "retail" or more.

If the Aperion Grand sounds like $3K speakers, then sure.

Everyone is different. To those who have auditioned the Verus Grand and think they are only "average" speakers, perhaps the Salk and Philharmonic may be the way to go.

The only way to know is to actually audition some PSB, Paradigm, KEF, B&W, Salk or Philharmonic, and Aperion. Otherwise, you will always be asking the "what if" question forever.

Understand about all being different -- do you know of anyone that has stated the VGT Aperion Towers are just "Average" speakers? Every report/review/owner I have read/chatted with LOVE their VGT Towers?

All reviews/reports have rated them up where the Revel Salon 2's are at 4.5/5 Stars!! Do you think they are that GREAT? Looks like they measure right in there with the Salons, but don't weigh quite as much.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

do you know of anyone that has stated the VGT Aperion Towers are just "Average" speaker?

Nuance AH (who owns Salk speakers & has auditioned Verus Grand towers) wrote about the Verus Grand Towers:

...their midrange detail and accuracy was average

Their on-axis FR looked great on AH review. Most people say they sound great. So the final test has to be the actual audition.

They may sound absolutely fantastic and detailed as described by AH review.