Upconverting/Upscaling AVR: Whats the benefit of having it?

[Kilim]

This is how I am planning to setup:

Toshiba A30 ------> HDMI ---------> AVR --> HDMI to Samsung LN-T4069F HDTV
Wii ---------------> Component ---> AVR--> HDMI to Samsung LN-T4069F HDTV
PS3 -------------> HDMI ----------> AVR --> HDMI to Samsung LN-T4069F HDTV
SA 8300HD DVR --> HDMI ----------> AVR --> HDMI to Samsung LN-T4069F HDTV
PC ---------------> DVI-to-HDMI ----------> HDMI to Samsung LN-T4069F HDTV
PC Audio ---------> Toslink --------> AVR​

Equipment possible resolutions:

A30 - upto 1080p/24
PS3 - upto 1080p/24
Wii - 480p
SA 8300HD DVR - set to run native 480i/480p/720i/720p/1080i dependent on source​

I am kinda confused on this Upscaling/Upconverting features of some AVR.
Read that some AVR can only "Passthrough" as in just outputing the exact same info that they receive, AFAIK.

So I have a few questions:

• Are Upconverting/Upscaling AVR worth it?
• Would I need it for the planned setup I have?
• Would there be any noticeable differences? compared to a non-upconverting/upscaling AVR?
• Would the upconvert/upscale of the AVR be similar to how my SA8300 HD DVR Cablebox show images to 1080i?
  (ie: smaller image with bars on side for some feeds)
• What are the pros/Cons of one with this feature and one without?
• Would there be a noticeable PQ and AQ difference between a AVR with Upconvert/Upscale feature and an AVR with just HDMI A/V Passthrough?

As you can see I am a noob about this and just want to understand the feature and if it is worth saving money for to get or I would be better of with a cheaper AVR without this feature.

Right now I have most of my equipment on direct HDMI Feed to my TV.
Except for my Wii and Cablebox is connected via Component into my TV.
I am happy with it for now.
But wondering if there would be a noticeable difference.

So far, if I am reading it right, the ONLY sources that can benefit from this are my:

SA8300HD DVR --> Upconvert/Upscale 480i/480p/720i/720p/1080i SD/HD Channels to 1080p
Wii -------------> Upconvert/Upscale 480p to 1080p​

My PS3 and A30 can upconvert SD DVD to 1080p/60 and play upto 1080p/24 on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.
PS3 also has an option to upconvert/upscale to 1080p on the games also.

Am I missing soemthing else?

 

[MDS]

IF the AVR can do a better job of scaling than any of the other components then it would be a worthwhile feature. It can be worthwhile for source devices that cannot scale to any HD resolution but of course the TV will scale anything it receives to its native resolution anyway.

So its simply a question of which device has the best scaling implementation and you probably can't really tell until you try out all combinations and see which one looks best to your eyes.

 

[Kilim]

So in short, any non-1080p sources (my Wii and Cablebox) will look better with a AVR with this feature?

 

[MDS]

So in short, any non-1080p sources (my Wii and Cablebox) will look better with a AVR with this feature?

If the AVR does a better job than the TV. If your TV has a native resolution of 1080p it will scale anything coming in to 1080p. If you use an AVR that scales to 1080p then the TV will just display it as-is because it already matches the TV's native resolution.

 

[Kilim]

If the AVR does a better job than the TV. If your TV has a native resolution of 1080p it will scale anything coming in to 1080p. If you use an AVR that scales to 1080p then the TV will just display it as-is because it already matches the TV's native resolution.

My TV is a Samsung LN-T4069F so I think it does have a 1080p native resolution.
So if I am reading it right, I don't need an AVR with this feature cuz my TV can already do it?

 

[Bluesmoke]

My projector has the HQV Reon chip, so I would never want to get a receiver that had a scaler or a scaler that can't be turned off. It's makes it so much easier to manage resolution of incoming devices.

 

[Kilim]

Right now, It looks like the ONLY Equipment of mine that will benefit from an AVR with this feature are my Wii and Cablebox.

I just realized that the CableBox I have has an option to show movies from its native resolution to 720p or 1080P.
This is usually on SD Channels.
Problem is that it makes the show width smaller adding black bars on the sides to accomodate the new resolution.
Is this the same effect an AVR will do?
I turned this feature off as my wife hates the bars on the side when this is done and want the picture to fill the entire screen.

If it is, then I see no reason to get an AVR with this feature.
But would like to know if what I am thinking is right or not.

This is actually the display options on my cablebox:

* Fixed - Displays all content at whatever resolution you selected in Setup Wizard.
* Pass Through - Passes input signal through with no change unless you disable a resolution. For example 480i in - 480i out, 720P in - 720P out, 720p disabled - 1080i out, etc.
* Auto HDMI/DVI - If you use HDMI, this option replaces Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to scan rate supported by TV.
* UpConvert 1 - All 480i/480P signals converted to 480P. All 720P/1080i signals converted to 1080i.
* UpConvert 2 - All 480i/480P signals converted to 480P. All 720P/1080i signals converted to 720P.​

And this is how to remove the bars on SD Channels:

Removing Bars On SD Channels. Factory default displays side bars on non-HD channels. Toggling zoom modes eliminates them, but this often cuts much of image. Adding resolutions allows TV to stretch images and avoid uneven phosphor wear (burn-in). Use Setup Wizard to enable resolutions other than 1080i. Also set picture format to Pass-Through (press Settings twice, scroll to Seticture Format, select Pass-Through).

* With box OFF and TV ON, press Info /Guide (on box) together, then follow on-screen directions to enable 480i and others. Cable passes 720p (ABC, FOX, ESPN), 1080i (all other HD channels), 480i (SD channels), and 480p (music channels). If you do not see difference between 1080i/720p, enable only one to minimize reformatting while channel surfing. Note: The 480i/p Widescreen options allow 8300 to stretch image. Do not enable if you use TV to stretch image.​

What I do is set display to Upconvert1 and do the option to remove the side bars on SD Channels.

Am I too much of a noob to not understand this right?
Just trying to see if there is a need for me for an AVR with such a feature and if it will actually have a noticebale difference.

 

[MDS]

I just realized that the CableBox I have has an option to show movies from its native resolution to 720p or 1080P.
This is usually on SD Channels.
Problem is that it makes the show width smaller adding black bars on the sides to accomodate the new resolution.
Is this the same effect an AVR will do?

The size of the image (black bars on the sides or top and bottom) depends on the aspect ratio of the image (ratio of width to height) and NOT directly on the resolution. Usually a 480i or 480p signal is in 4:3 (1.33:1) format and that will show black bars on the sides when displayed on a widescreen 16:9 TV. 720p and 1080i signals are nearly always 16:9 (1.78:1) but can be even wider (1.85:1 or 2.35:1) and will show thin black bars on the top and bottom in that case. The TV's stretch modes are what fill the entire screen.

The issue of whether to have the cable box scale or pass through the signal at its native resolution comes down to, once again, whether it does the better job of scaling or the AVR does it better or the TV does it better.

You don't need the cable box or an AVR to deinterlace or scale anything because the TV will do it BUT in some cases they may do a better job than the TV itself.

Edit: So you have a Scientific Atlanta HD box. Mine does not have all of those options and always converts everything to 1080i. By using that option to remove side bars you are having the cable box do the 'stretch' of the image just as you would have the cable box do the deinterlacing or scaling if you use any option other than passthrough. If you leave it on passthrough the TV is doing the deinterlacing and scaling. If you were to buy an AVR with a scaler you could have it do it instead. The only way to know which works best is to try it. I wouldn't use the cable box feature to remove sidebars though because then you will not be able to use all of the TV's stretch modes for 4:3 content.

 

[Kilim]

So this is what I get so far:

PS3 and A30 can upscale/upconvert to 1080p SD DVD and 1080p/24 Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.
PS3 has option to upscale/upconvert to 1080p lower res games.
This means this 2 devices don't need an AVR with the feature.

Now only the Wii and Cablebox may need it.
Problem is, I won't be able to know how much of an improvement it will be until I try it out?
If it won't be a noticeable difference, I don't think I would need this feature and can settle for an AVR that only has A/V Pass-Through features instead.

I think the only important equipment of mine that may actually benefit from this the most is my CableBox.
I can live with the Wii but the CableBox is used more than anything.

Does anyone here with an SA 8300HD DVR Cablebox and an AVR that has Upconvert/Upscale feature notice any improvement and is it worth the extra few hundred dollars?
Does it make the SD Channels and HD Channels noticeably better?
Maybe post a comparison image of just the CableBox vs the AVR Upconverted/Upscale picture difference?

Right now, it seems I may not need this feature at all and should just buy a AVR w/o this feature but would still love to get some feedback to teach me.

 

[marmyk1]

I have asked the same question,will a sony str da5300es up-convert/upscale, a standard or 480p signal from my bell 6100 hd sat. receiver to hd.one member answered a yes it will,but im not sure if im convinced for the $2000 the avr. will cost.if you get any good feedback from your thread please let me know.I have a thread on this question.any feedback will be much appreciated.

 

[fmw]

Killim, I'm not sure you are paying attention. People are trying to tell you that an upscaling AVR may or may not improve the performance of your system. As an example, I have a pretty good AVR and it scales noticeably better than my TV set and slightly better than the input sources. So I get better results with it than without it. I get very much better results from SD satellite programming with it, as an example.

However that might not be the case for you. I had a receiver with a relatively poor processor before and it didn't scale any better than the source components or the TV. It depends on the specific components involved.