upconversion/scaling where should it be done?

[howie85]

Im shopping for a projector and have a few concerns about where when and how upconversion/scaling changes pq either good or bad. I have been thinking about the Optoma h79 or the Infocus 7210. I have a pioneer dv59avi which has upconversion and looked good on my previous television. Im using Dish hd811 and im specifically wondering about the standard def television signals and how to improve them. I am looking at the Yamaha rxv2600 because it has upconversion but since there are no reviews Im unsure about how good the upconversion would work. I have also considered the dvdo hd+ which has a track record that rates it good. Apparently there is also scaling done in the projectors too.
How does all this work with the different signals dvd being upconverted at different places with different processors? If i decide on the yammy then what does the scaler in the dvd player and the projector do? Does a scaler know when the signal is already 720p or whatever and just not do anything? How can I bypass the conversion process at any step say if I go with a DVDO then what happens to the signal at the projector. Any help would be great, I hope it just seems complicated

 

[soundsfine]

The projector will know if the signal is already scaled and doesn't need to do anything.

Usually, the best place to scale is in the digital domain. In other words, in the case of a DVD it seems ideal to scale in the player. Otherwise, you convert digital to analog then back to digital again. If you can scale in the player the signal can remain digital all the way through to the display (which is also digital).

That said, the quality of scalers varies widely. Some scalers built into televisions, for example, do a great job even with component sources. There are extremely high-quality scalers available for the broadcast industry -- typically separate boxes.

So, the short answer is: use the scaler that works the best for your source material.

 

[howie85]

so there is no interaction with scaled signals and scalers. If I went with the Yamaha It would receive 720p from the dvd and satellite it would only scale the standard def television and leave all other signals alone, same with any scaler down stream? Can i use the dvi output of the sat for both standard def and hi def or should I use s video connector for standard def? guess I need to know where the best scaler is and then let it do all the work. And the native res of the projectors is 720p so then any signals should be scaled to that res and they will pass through the projector scaler with no more processing. Do i have this correct? Thanks

 

[soundsfine]

Yes, use the DVI connection from the sat. It will provide both SD and HD. I don't have the Yamaha, but the only signals that should get scaled are the ones that need to be scaled. The rest should be left alone. And finally, yes, if the projector gets 720p it will be content and just display.

 

[howie85]

sounds easy enough now to find out the quality of the scaler in the projector vs the yamaha vs the DVDO Thanks

 

[df4801]

I think I disagree with above.
If you go with the 7210, it will have a better scaler than whats in your other components, so I would let the projector do the hard work. Thats why it cost more than the other pieces. You can always try it out each way and see what gives you the best picture. But dont be surprised if you end up sending 480p to the projector.

 

[howie85]

that would be my next step purchase the cheaper projector and av without processing and add the DVDO scaler which has a proven record. It seems like a difference of only a couple of humdred buck either way seems like the DVDO or somehing like it would give more flexibility and the new dvdo has 1080p capability due out in Nov and HDMI connections .

 

[df4801]

A cheaper projector and dvdo may cost close to a pj with good scaling like the 7210.
Also, better pj's tend to have better color wheels, lens shift, etc.
If your room is not fully light controlled, go with a brighter pj like the 7210.
Its also hard to compare pj's based on stated lumens. You have to see the calibrated numbers. Infocus pj's tend to be closed to stated lumens.
Hope that helps.

 

[df4801]

I almost forgot to add, standard def signals will look average at best regardless of what you try to do to improve them. DVDO or a good scaler cant make up for a crappy signal.

 

[Vancouver]

Your Idea of getting a DVDO is a good one. In most basic terms you want to get the best processor possible to send the native size AND rate to your projector. The nice thing about the DVDO is you can send 72Hz. If I were you I would find a project0or that has a native RATE of 72hz (if one exissts). Then have the DVDO scaler and de-interlace the video signal and send a signal to the projector in its native rate and size. You will end up with a sharp 3D picture and very little to no motion blur.

 

[df4801]

my point was, if you get the 7210, you probably will see no difference vs. dvdo. Go to avs forum and search the threads. I believe there was someone there who compared the 7210 w/ and w/o dvdo and no diff. in picture quality. Now if you get the H79 (which does not have the faroudja scaler like the 7210, then dvdo will help)

 

[RLA]

Hello
The 7210 uses the Faroudja FL 2310 chipset and Infocus has done an excellent job in its implementation of the chip I have done several A/B comparisons of the onboard processing and external processing and the 7210 keeps up with the best of them.

The next step up would be a processor like the Vantage with the Silicon Optix Realta processor

My advice would be use the cash you were going to spend on external processing and build a nice DVD collection the gain will be minimal

One other thing to keep in mind is that 720p DLP may be old technology
by this time next year we will know more at CES But I think that Infocus has something new planned for 1 quarter next year and many other PJ manufactures will follow

PS the 7210 is a phenomenal PJ for the money

 

[howie85]

My thoughts were outboard processor of which ever brand has good quality which im thinking would give me future upgrade options without thinking about signal processing, the lower model av like the rxv 1600 and the optoma h79 which is cheaper than the 7210 and does not have as good of processing but does well in pq, something like that nothing in stone yet just bouncing some ideas around might just end up with the 7210 and go with that or wait to see some new models not too far away I hope.

 

[RLA]

The H-79 and the Vantage would be a potent combo but that would be
A wallet buster and you would still be @720p The 7210 is about the same price as the H-79 and you have an excellent projector and processor as one unit.

 

[howie85]

how does the yamaha 1300 factor into this? I tried to do a search for the 1200 but not much out there to go on.

 

[RLA]

The Yamaha 1300 is a significant step up from the 7210 or H-79
It has the Silicon Optix Realta processor built in.

Two things thing to keep in mind with the Yamaha DPX series DLP's

They are heavy and extensive modification to existing framing will be required to install in a clean configuration

You can almost buy the Infocus 777 3-chip DLP for the price of the DXP 1300
single chip

 

[howie85]

I suppose I will have to contact my installer to get some details on the 777 vs the Yamaha. Thanks Ray