Underpowered Receiver

[R.B.]

I have a Pioneer VSX-D412 audio video multi channel receiver rated at 100 watts per channel. I also have a pair of Jenson 1500 power station speakers rated at 500 watts max and a pair of Jenson 1300's rated at 400 watts max both at 8 OHMS. This receiver is slighly underpowered for these speakers. The main question is - can I utilize a power amp(s) with this receiver to get more wattage. I appreciate all comments and suggestions anyone has to offer. Thank you. R.B.

 

[Leprkon]

does the receiver get too hot or clip the sound ? if it does, just look at the back of the unit. does it have RCA-type jacks for individual channel output or just the one for the sub ? Are you just short on the mains or do you need all the channels pumped up ?

If it has the outputs, it can be hooked up to an external like this one:

http://ww3.onecall.com/About_00001000_22_67_0_0_ati_0.htm

just hope your Fed-Ex guy doesn't pop a gut bringing it in for you !

 

[warnerwh]

Is the sound not loud enough for you? That would be the only reason to get a different amp or receiver. The power rating of a speaker is only a rough guide of how much power the speakers can handle and are typically very ambiguous. If the volume that you listen to is loud enough and the amp isn't clipping you don't need more power. If the amp has been clipping then more power is a good idea or you may blow your tweeters. A clipping amp can do that.

 

[Leprkon]

The power rating of a speaker is only a rough guide of how much power the speakers can handle and are typically very ambiguous.

WW is dead-on here. A speaker can generally take quite a bit more than its rated power in short bursts, as long as it is a clean signal. A dirty signal (clipping) from a struggling amp, even at levels WELL below the speaker's rating, has the speaker trying to move two directions at the same time and can rip it apart.

What you really need to do is make sure whatever amp/receiver you get can produce the sound level you want cleanly, without getting too hot.

 

[DJnPT]

That guy who gave you that Pioneer amp should give you some bluegill fillets too!!!

 

[R.B.]

response to questions/help needed

Leprkon-the receiver does seem to produce alot of heat but no clipping @ full volume has been noticed. This receiver does not have RCA-jacks for individual channel output just one for the sub. I beleive there called binding post type connections. I'm just short on the mian speakers for when the reciever is set in the direct stereo mode and want to realy pump it up.
Warnerwh-Yes the sound is not loud enough for me yet.
My goal is to keep this system entact so as to have the surround sound capabilites but when in the direct stereo mode be able to put more power to the main speakers. That brings me back to the oringinal question is there any way to add a external power source to this particular receiver?
Just something to throw into the mix prior to the first post I was looking at Pyle power amps on that note a week ago last thursday I called Pyle Audio and talked to one of there tecs. This person indicated that I could not hook up one of there power amps between the back of this receiver and the speakers because it was'nt the right kind of signal. This tec then went on to say that a "line level converter" could be used to accomplish this but that they did'nt make any. Has anyone ever heard of such an animal? Then went on to say that if I had a head pone jack which I do that it could be used to send the proper singal to a power amp that would suport the four main speakers. Does anyone know if this is possible?
Thank you all for any comments or questions.
R.B.

 

[markw]

Well, if ya really want to go that route, here ya go.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-307

No guarantee that these don't affect the sound quality, though.

One thing to think about... doublng the power will barely make a difference.

To get an apparant doubling of your current loudness level, you'll need roughly ten (10) times your current power.

Also, your speakers have some say in this as well. If they are inefficient, you can feed them all the power available and they still won't put out much noise.

For instance, to put out a given loudness level, a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 86 decibles will require twice the power of one rated at 89 decibles. ..or FOUR times the power of one rated at 92 decibles, or EIGHT times the power of one rated at 95 decibles and on and on and on...

...just a little something to think about...

 

[DJnPT]

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-307

No guarantee that these don't affect the sound quality, though.

One thing to think about... doublng the power will barely make a difference.

To get an apparant doubling of your current loudness level, you'll need roughly ten (10) times your current power.

Also, your speakers have some say in this as well. If they are inefficient, you can feed them all the power available and they still won't put out much noise.

For instance, to put out a given loudness level, a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 86 decibles will require twice the power of one rated at 89 decibles. ..or FOUR times the power of one rated at 92 decibles, or EIGHT times the power of one rated at 95 decibles and on and on and on...

...just a little something to think about...

MARKW..........

RB is a friend of mine and he is just starting to build up his stereo system ....(he wants to rattle the trees in the back 40!....his wife says he's going through a mid-life crises! ) he's got these huge speakers that will handle tons of watts, but he wants to know if he can add a power amp to the Pioneer 5.1 surround sound receiver to boost the volume to his four speakers for listening to music while still keeping the surround sound for watching movies on the TV......I told him to post in a different topic to get more opinions......what do you think?

 

[soniceuphoria]

I ran into the same problem not all to long ago. I had purchased a pair of carver ALIII's, which are nortoriously inefficent and power hungry speakers. To say the least my yamaha reciever fell on it's face trying to push them. So what I did is purchased a power amp (Crest Audio Vs450) and used the line level speaker outputs as the inputs on the power amp and there it was hundreds of watts at the turn of a knob. I hope this helps you in your quest to find power, because as any true audiophile knows you can never have too much power. Happy listening.
Greg

 

[WmAx]

One thing to think about... doublng the power will barely make a difference. To get an apparant doubling of your current loudness level, you'll need roughly ten (10) times your current power. [/QUOTE] I think this depends on the person and their perception(s). 3dB is a significant increase to me(it sounds exactly like a 50 percent increase in loudness), and 6dB sounds like twice(100% increase) the apparent volume to me. 10dB(what is considered the percieved doubling) is a HUGE difference to me. So, at least to me, 3dB is quite a difference. -Chris

 

[markw]

One size rarely fits all, but sometimes you have to start somewhere.

Not knowing him, his abilities or his hearing* I made a general statement.

This clip generally sums up where I'm coming from.

"The judgment of relative sounds is more or less logarithmic, such that a tenfold increase in sound power is described as "twice as loud". The just noticeable difference in loudness varies from 3 dB at the threshold of hearing to an impressive 0.5 dB for loud sounds."

It can be found at this site, along with other links, not to mention a section on the Fletcher Munson curve as well.

http://www.epanorama.net/links/audiohearing.html#general

* If he' maxing out his unit and still can't get enough volume, I'd say his hearing is on the way to total deafness and he'll need a LOT of power to complete the job, which seems to be his intent.

 

[WmAx]

Not knowing him, his abilities or his hearing* I made a general statement.

This clip generally sums up where I'm coming from.

"The judgment of relative sounds is more or less logarithmic, such that a tenfold increase in sound power is described as "twice as loud". The just noticeable difference in loudness varies from 3 dB at the threshold of hearing to an impressive 0.5 dB for loud sounds."

It can be found at this site, along with other links, not to mention a section on the Fletcher Munson curve as well.

http://www.epanorama.net/links/audiohearing.html#general

* If he' maxing out his unit and still can't get enough volume, I'd say his hearing is on the way to total deafness and he'll need a LOT of power to complete the job, which seems to be his intent.

I am aware of such. I was merely pointing out that it may not be universally applicable, since really, the thrown around terms and values are usually generalizations, not mentioned along with specific qualification(s) to understand the dynamic(s) of the circumstance(s).

-Chris