TV with HDMI passthrough (output)

[jozeph78]

Hey all...

Nice new PS3. HDMI 1.3 hurray! Wait, my Yamaha 4600 has HDMI 1.1. Oh woe is me.

I love this receiver but I don't want to compromise the Video signal going to the TV. So my only option is to go directly to my new TV (which hasn't been purchased yet) and then to the Yamaha or split the HDMI. Based on the price of splitters let's just rule that out, although it's much less expensive than buying a new receiver.

I really don't want to upgrade my RX-v4600 as it's only 7 months old and set me back $1200. Replacing it with the 4700 (or whatever comparable model with HDMI 1.3 will be) is just really not an option, especially since it's not even available.

So I'd like to go to my Yamaha RX-v4600 without loss of quality. I don't think I need. Many TV's have optical out but I do believe it can't provide the pure 7.1 signal available via HDMI. The Multi-Out seems like another valid option, but I'd prefer to stay in the digial realm and additionally, single cable.

Additionally, if running through the RX-V4600 to the TV wouldn't prevent any noticeable differences, please advise me. Thanks in advance.

 

[jozeph78]

Bumping...

I'm thinking just doing optical back to the receiver would be good enough.

Anything I'd be missing by going from optical out of TV back to receiver in place of direct source to receiver over direct HDMI 1.1. Going through the receiver I'd be cutting the color signal down to 1.1, but going back to the receiver I'd be missing out on TrueHD and the DTS equivilent which the rx-v4600 doesn't handle anyways.

Might be time to pitch the Yammie in favor of that new Denon Beast.

 

[Hi Ho]

You wouldn't be compromising anything video wise by going through the receiver. The only thing you'd only lose the ability to transmit Dolby TruHD and DTS HD through HDMI, which you won't get anyway without an HDMI 1.3 compatible receiver.

I would connect everything through the receiver myself. There is no sense in going to the TV and back to the receiver.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm not sure what audio you will be getting over the HDMI, but since this is a 100% digital connection you don't have almost any possibility of signal degradation like you might with analog signals. Go through the receiver - it is the way to do things.

Since TVs are endpoints, not repeaters, you will not likely find one that allows for pass-thru of HDMI. If you did find a TV that offerred that, you better believe it would be a very expensive (overpriced) model.

You can pick up splitters though that are not a ton of cash, but it just seems very pointless to me. You already have the solution in your receiver, hopefully the reason you bought that receiver is because it DOES offer that solution. Otherwise, buying that receiver makes almost no sense at all.

I personally think that this would potentially compromise your signal more than going through the receiver ever could:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2&style=

This, less so, but still just as likely:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011301&p_id=3049&seq=1&format=2&style=

 

[JonBaker99]

Just gonna ask the obvious question...What TV are you running right now that currently cares about 1.3?

Being as there are really no 1.3 devices currently shipping I'd say route everything through the 4600 and then out to the TV. Upgrade in a year or so once 1.3 devices are shipping (and tested) and are more common place.

As far as any degradation to the signal, BMXTRIX is right, digital is digtal. it either gets there or it doesn't. Interference is really a non-issue.

 

[jozeph78]

Just gonna ask the obvious question...What TV are you running right now that currently cares about 1.3?

None, I'm currently shopping for a TV that cares about 1.3. I know none will be out until end of year but I was already thinking salvage value of my 4600. I just learned that it doesn't upscale composite/component nor have GUI output to HDMI so the 4600 is going on the market. What a shame because I really thought I'd have that piece of equipment for years and less than 7 months later it's obsolete.

Still it seems strange with these new DRM'ed DHCP'ed HDMI 1.3 required audio formats that TV's won't provide an HDMI output to carry that signal, especially with cable card integration into the TV. How else would one carry that signal back to the receiver, and the point is to eliminate the set-top box isn't it? What's next? Receiver's with cable cards? Now my next receiver will be made obsolete because Cable Card 2.1a? Or HDMI 1.4?

Seems most of this would be best handled via software updates, but few components allow for that. Receivers, more than ever, have morphed into processing units more than amplifiers. Due to the inability to update these processors, you are left with a piece of metal ready to die 20 years before the amp circuitry is ready to rest in piece.


I believe some sort of DSP based PCI card for processing with pre-amp outputs to a dedicated power amp is best for the future. All this can be processed (and mixed) in a dedicated PC, which could serve dual purpose as Tivo/HTPC/MP3/etc... player with extendable services and interfaces well beyond what the best receiver in the world could offer. Processing power? Virtually nil because DSP cards could handle the heavy lifting and provide extendable input/output to your system. New DTS/Dolby? Swap out a $125 PCI processing card, save your $2000 amp. New HDMI? New $125 PCI card, save your $2000 amp. Need 1 more HDMI input, upgrade your 2 port to 4 port HDMI card for $175, save your $2000 amp.

Are there any such devices on the market or in planning? It just seems to make so much more sense to at least keep your amp and speakers separate from the receiver because I don't want my next $2000 purchase to go obsolete again due to a lousy cable. I know there's a bit more to it such as the processing involved for the codec's but there's nothing wrong with the amp in my reciever, it just isn't future proofed (upgradeable) for new interfaces or codecs.

Pardon the rant... thanks for the info.

I haven't really looked into dedicated pre-amps or surround processing equipment, I think i'm off to do so now.

 

[Hi Ho]

Still it seems strange with these new DRM'ed DHCP'ed HDMI 1.3 required audio formats that TV's won't provide an HDMI output to carry that signal, especially with cable card integration into the TV. How else would one carry that signal back to the receiver, and the point is to eliminate the set-top box isn't it? What's next? Receiver's with cable cards? Now my next receiver will be made obsolete because Cable Card 2.1a? Or HDMI 1.4?

If one is using a TV with a CableCard then you do not need to output anything to a receiver over HDMI. If you want digital sound you would hook up an optical or coaxial cable. HDMI does not affect the sound. It's basically a combination of DVI and digital audio that has been around for years. Yes, it can carry the high resolution audio found on SACD's/DVD-A and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray but only if you have a receiver with HDMI 1.3, which you cannot buy yet. I don't see how a TV with HDMI 1.3 will make any difference.

I just learned that it doesn't upscale composite/component nor have GUI output to HDMI so the 4600 is going on the market. What a shame because I really thought I'd have that piece of equipment for years and less than 7 months later it's obsolete.

I have a Yamaha 2700 and I will be keeping it for quite a while. It outputs the GUI over every connection and transcodes everything to HDMI. No, it does not have HDMI 1.3 but the only reason I would need that is for HD-DVD and I can use analog multi-channel inputs for that.

 

[jozeph78]

If one is using a TV with a CableCard then you do not need to output anything to a receiver over HDMI. If you want digital sound you would hook up an optical or coaxial cable. HDMI does not affect the sound. It's basically a combination of DVI and digital audio that has been around for years. Yes, it can carry the high resolution audio found on SACD's/DVD-A and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray but only if you have a receiver with HDMI 1.3, which you cannot buy yet. I don't see how a TV with HDMI 1.3 will make any difference.

You need HDMI to get the new uncompressed formats back to the receiver if they ever start broadcasting it. From what I know optical doesn't do 7.1. And by the time HDMI 1.3 TV's are out, especially Cable Card 2.0 TV's, the receivers will be out.

I have a Yamaha 2700 and I will be keeping it for quite a while. It outputs the GUI over every connection and transcodes everything to HDMI. No, it does not have HDMI 1.3 but the only reason I would need that is for HD-DVD and I can use analog multi-channel inputs for that.

The PS3 does not have analog multi-channel outputs, plus the point is to use 1 cable, not 7. If there is a TV that has them wouldn't it require the TV to do the decoding making it an expensive TV?

I guess I just don't don't see the point of buying anything quality that doesn't support the newest codecs. It's a real holding pattern, not just the typical "there's always something better" type of cycle.

I looked at the 2700 and I do wish I had on in place of the 4600 but I don't think I'll make any moves until I can get something fully 1.3 receiver and tv.