TV and Speakers! Need Help!

[mgergolet]

Hi, I am new to the forum and I thought this could be the best place to find some advice!

I am planning my living room and I want to have a nice TV and speakers.
I'd like a home theater set, or better to say, a media center on which I can connect the TV, a blueray player, the iPod and ideally also an Mac Mini.

I can spend around 4000 Euros / 5000 Dollars to get the best possible result... (speaking of all hardware excluding iPod/iPad/Mac...)

For the TV I was thinking of a Plasma Panasonic, but don't have a clue about the models. I prefer the Plasma since the colors are more "real" for me...

Regarding the speakers and all the audio part, I know nothing about it. Just checked something at Bose, they seem to have good products and without knowing anything better would go for those.

But I am sure you can suggest me something better! Good connectivity with iPod and iPad is appreciated, the one with the Mac Mini is quite essential...

The living room is something around 50 squared meters, let's say a 7x7 square...

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[DD66000]

I'll start with the audio. Do yourself a favor and forget Bose! Way over priced to say nothing of being able to buy better for less. That is a large room, small cubes won't get it done. And most certainly you will need a pair of good subwoofers.
Almost any brand will provide better sound for less, compared to Bose. You need to do some auditions. I don't know where you live or what brands might be available to you. But I suspect you have JBL, B&W, KEF, Vienna Acoustics, Wharfedale, Jamo.
For the electronics, you probably have Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, Panasonic, Bang & Olufsen.
Panasonic plasmas are good, I don't know one model from the other.

 

[mgergolet]

I'll start with the audio. Do yourself a favor and forget Bose! Way over priced to say nothing of being able to buy better for less. That is a large room, small cubes won't get it done. And most certainly you will need a pair of good subwoofers.
Almost any brand will provide better sound for less, compared to Bose. You need to do some auditions. I don't know where you live or what brands might be available to you. But I suspect you have JBL, B&W, KEF, Vienna Acoustics, Wharfedale, Jamo.
For the electronics, you probably have Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, Panasonic, Bang & Olufsen.
Panasonic plasmas are good, I don't know one model from the other.

Thanks for the reply!

I live in Milan and have the opportunity to move a bit around here... Found a Bang & Olufsen shop the other day, will check it better!

I bought (have to say, a bit at random) a Harman Kardon amplifier for my summer apartment and it is quite a good choice!

But I am completely new to this area, so...

Could you please list me a set of things that I should buy?
For examples: for that area you should take: an amplifier, X speakers of more or less this size and this power, a subwoofer.. Anything that u think is appropriate... And if you could please suggest me like:

Top choice speakers:
1. Bang&Olufsen..
2. ?
3. ?
Top choice amplifier:
1.
2.
3.

Would be very nice if you could help me further!

 

[DD66000]

Audio are things of personal preference, for the most part.
And the room you are using, certainly matters most. 50 meters is a large room, so I would go with tower speakers. And you may even want to add a sub, depending on your musical taste.
When pairing speakers to an amplifier, you need to pay attention to the speakers sensitivity ratings, ie: 86db, 90db, 93db. The higher the number the easier they are to drive.
Speakers like the Revel Salon2, B&W have numbers in the mid 80s. They are very good speakers, but you'll want a high powered amp, especially in that large room. I would say, 400w amp minimum.
For speakers that are 91~93db and higher, you can get by with a 200~250w amp.
One thing about Harman Kardon amps, they tend to be under rated, meaning the H/K 990 150w amp was tested to 200w output, from what I read a couple of weeks ago. One reviewer's thoughts that it was better than using separate pre-amp/power amp.

 

[Grador]

For amplifier recommendations it's also important to know if you are looking for a stereo setup or surround sound. I think you can get away with a bit less power than DD66000 suggests, and going with a lower power amp will give you more wiggle room on the price for your speakers. I have a 5m x 10m room, with the 5m dimension being a very open boundry with another room, with boston VR35's (I cannot seem to find sensitivity specs on these right now) and matching center hooked up to a ~90 watt per channel yamaha and am not lacking for clean volume.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

50sq meters and lets say 3 meters height is roughly to 5400 cu ft
In my book this space is large and as mentioned no tiny speakers will ever fill it

Regarding TV's - Here we are big fans of Panasonics plasmas in fact I'm getting one soon myself. Checkout 2011 models for better deals - For example TC-PxxST30 - xx stands for TV size in inches.

I'm not really familiar with Italian speaker brands, other than Sonus Faber (good, but pretty expensive), but I do know B&O as very big on design, but very expensive... How about UK audio brands: Wharfardale Diamond series are pretty good and should be affordable. Other good euro brands to look for Tannoy, Mission, KEF, Focal, Jamo, Canton and many others ...

Pick speakers first and then we'll talk electronics...

 

[DD66000]

I've been known to shut down a 120w Yamaha amp in the past. (As in sent it into protection mode) and the speakers were quite efficient @ 91db, plus there was a sub. And the room was only 15.5 x 23 ft. That's a lot smaller than 5m square.

In a room that was 3200 cuft (90.6 m3) I used a 220w amp for 5 channels.

My daughter uses a 90w HK AVR to drive a pair of JBL L890s, but its in a much smaller room.

But you start with the speakers first, cos if you buy a low watt amp/AVR first and then decide to buy a pair of tower speakers that only are rated at 84db, you are in big trouble.

 

[mgergolet]

Thanks guys!

But I don't understand some of the things you are saying, since I am new to this world...

I intend to buy the things online and get them delivered to my home...

For the TV, Panasonic Plasma is done. Thanks for the advice on the models!

For the rest... Well, please help me a bit more with even more specific things about which models and which should roughly be the costs... Or if you can give me some links, here or if it is not possible in private messages...

Please, consider that in the same room there is a lot of wood and a piano, therefore somehow a relaxed-classic atmosphere, so I wouldn't like some hardcore colors or stuff like that...

 

[DD66000]

None of us really know what is available to you, even with online buying. Where I live, there are many brands that would not deliver here. If you have local audio shops in which you can audition speakers, that is what you need to do.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thanks guys!

But I don't understand some of the things you are saying, since I am new to this world...

I intend to buy the things online and get them delivered to my home...

For the TV, Panasonic Plasma is done. Thanks for the advice on the models!

For the rest... Well, please help me a bit more with even more specific things about which models and which should roughly be the costs... Or if you can give me some links, here or if it is not possible in private messages...

Please, consider that in the same room there is a lot of wood and a piano, therefore somehow a relaxed-classic atmosphere, so I wouldn't like some hardcore colors or stuff like that...

As DD66000, We won't even know what would your brands/models available to you. I could recommend to you great audio system on your budget here in US , only to find out the shipping and import taxes would send the price sky high.

What you need to do know is grab a CD with your favorite music and visit several local audio dealers to get an idea which speakers you like or not...

I listed some known and respectable speakers brands above so you have some pointers what to look for.

Many of them make speaker finishes could match your decor.

 

[Phantom48v]

I'm just gonna chime in on a few things I noticed, so take them for what they're worth...I'm new here too so my knowledge on home systems is somewhat limited.

To start I'd reiterate what DD66000 said...stay far away from Bose. I've been trying to break my parents of that habit for years.

For Receivers, given your mention of Apple products, I'd suggest looking into Marantz receivers (once you've made your speaker choice, as others have said). I've used a SR7005 and it comes with AirPlay, which means I can be on my iPad, and simply click an icon next to the Play button and send the audio directly to the receiver wirelessly, which is really great considering you don't always have to have it hooked up via USB, so you can control music from wherever you are. It has an app to control the volume, source, whatever, which I use a lot more than I thought I would. It also puts out 125w X 7, which isn't bad, and it's got a really clean look.

With a MacMini you can go straight in with an HDMI cable, although if you're going to hook up a computer to a TV with the intent of using it as a monitor, stay away from plasma, and rethink LCD (burn is real issue, and you don't want that). Otherwise, get an AppleTV if you want to access your iTunes media on your theater system, as it has burn in mind and shifts the picture if it's gonna be on the same album/artwork or menu for a while (side note: RedEye makes a cool IR Blaster with an iPad app to turn it into a wifi controlled universal remote for around $200).

Just my thoughts, and something to think about, but as others have said, speakers first.

 

[mgergolet]

So, I went to some dealers and found some solutions.

Remeasured the room, it is actually smaller than I thought, around 6mx6m, 3.30/3.50 high.

As for the TV, my choice would be Panasonic TX-P50GT30.
I don't give a damn about the 3D stuff, but 1350 euros seems ok to me. Cannot use bigger TVs as the size limit is 123cm in lenght... I could alternatively find something around 156 cm, but that becomes quite expensive (3300 euros for Panasonic TX-P65VT30E)

For the speakers I am quite convinced about Indiana Line.
The idea is to have two floor standing loudspeakers (Tesi 542), one centre channel loudspeakers (Tesi 742) and 2 closed box speakers to put at the back of the room (Luna, but unsure.. Tesi 242 might be better?). One of the key aspects of the choice has been against the size: can't be more than 16 cm wide, and this one is 135 mm.
Subwoofer: Indiana Line - Basso 830

Now what is probably the most crucial thing: the amp.

My choice could be a Denon AVR-1912.
But here I have a lot of questions and requirements:

First: It must be able to sustain all the speakers mentioned above and a subwoofer, PLUS two speakers in the kitchen. So, 5+2.
Question: will it be possible to - play what I see on the TV only in the main room, isolating the kitchen/making it silent? (i think it should...)

Second: would it be possible to play simultaneously two different things? Music in the kitchen AND TV program in the main room?
Or would it be possible to play on the Xbox, but have for example only the front speakers using the sound coming from the Xbox while all the other speakers play music?

Third: a) AirPlay. How does it work exactly? I kind of understood that it connects your iPhone wirelessly to the Denon, allowing you to "press Play" on the iPhone and hear the music in the whole room. Is it this way? Works also with photos? I mean, can I look at the photos I have on the iPhone and see them on the TV with AirPlay or in some way with Denon AVR-1912 or not? Or do I need to buy the wireless dock, ASD-51W?
b) It should work over the wireless network, right? But there is no Wireless/ADSL network in the house (and never will be, at least in the near future, because the house is meant to make me stay away from work and just relax). Does the Denon create its own wireless network without internet data or do I just miss all the functionality?
c) Would it be possible to wirelessly show pictures or play music that i have on a MacBook Pro on the TV? There is no Internet connection in the house, but by buying a router would it be possible to create just a network in order to allow the Denon to display what I want (movie or pictures) from a Mac or is this just pure Utopia and I would need to use a HDMI cable?

So the costs are:
TV - 1300 euros
Speakers + Subwoofer - 1100 euros
Amp - 500 euros
Total: 2900 euros.
The cables and the job I suppose would be around 300 euros, so total comes to around 3200.

I have some space to make improvements, around let's say 800 euros, which can be on an amp that allows me to do what I mentioned in the questions...
The dealers has also ONKYO and Yamaha products at a competitive price.

Any further help is appreciated, the things you told me came very useful so far!

 

[Grador]

The receiver is far from the most important part, which are the speakers.

Now to tackle some of your questions. Looking at the feature list of the receiver you are looking at seems to indicate that it lacks a second zone. For your kitchen speakers you are going to want to look for a receiver with an amplified second zone. This will allow you to play back a second source in the kitchen simultaneously with whatever is going on with the main setup.

Airplay is a means to stream music over your network. With the receiver you were talking about, if you had it plugged into your network, while your iphone/ipad was connected to the same network wirelessly you would be able to select to have the music playing on your phone be played on the receiver. The receiver does no have any wireless capability, but having a wireless router would give you all the functionality without the need for internet.

For receivers with second zone, I am most familiar with yamaha products. I'm not sure about other manufacturers, but on anything in your price range yamaha receivers do not allow you to use a digital input on the second zone.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I can't speak of Denon's 2nd Zone (it's probably there) but I never used these
Few things:
Did you see Panasonic TX-P50GT30 next to Panasonic TX-P50ST30 and decided to go with prior? I think I mentioned that other that THX Certification and Advanced calibration features these are exactly same tv , while 2nd cost less


Indiana Line - Never heard of them, but they look nice and specs sound reasonable. I hope you actually had a chance to listed to them, other than just relaying on 3rd party suggestion....

Sub - your room volume is about 122 cu meters which is about 4200 cuft - which we consider a medium size room. The sub you picked - Basso 830 - I highly doubt be sufficient to enjoy real HT experience and I think you should bump it to atleast Basso 850

Regarding Wireless network:
No receiver would "create" a wireless network - you'd need to get wifi access point and configure it. then connect receiver and your iDevice

 

[Grador]

A receiver that supports bluetooth would be able to wirelessly stream music without any additional equipment, but at lower quality [quite poor from my experience].

 

[mgergolet]

The receiver is far from the most important part, which are the speakers.

Now to tackle some of your questions. Looking at the feature list of the receiver you are looking at seems to indicate that it lacks a second zone. For your kitchen speakers you are going to want to look for a receiver with an amplified second zone. This will allow you to play back a second source in the kitchen simultaneously with whatever is going on with the main setup.

Airplay is a means to stream music over your network. With the receiver you were talking about, if you had it plugged into your network, while your iphone/ipad was connected to the same network wirelessly you would be able to select to have the music playing on your phone be played on the receiver. The receiver does no have any wireless capability, but having a wireless router would give you all the functionality without the need for internet.

For receivers with second zone, I am most familiar with yamaha products. I'm not sure about other manufacturers, but on anything in your price range yamaha receivers do not allow you to use a digital input on the second zone.

Searching on the web, I found that it should have two zones...
For the price range, well, I can add some money to improve the quality or the features if what I need is not in this receiver... 500 euros or 800-900 euros it not a big difference in this case for me, if it is crucial.

 

[Grador]

Just double checked, the AVR-1912 most certainly does not have a second amplified zone....

 

[mgergolet]

I can't speak of Denon's 2nd Zone (it's probably there) but I never used these
Few things:
Did you see Panasonic TX-P50GT30 next to Panasonic TX-P50ST30 and decided to go with prior? I think I mentioned that other that THX Certification and Advanced calibration features these are exactly same tv , while 2nd cost less


Indiana Line - Never heard of them, but they look nice and specs sound reasonable. I hope you actually had a chance to listed to them, other than just relaying on 3rd party suggestion....

Sub - your room volume is about 122 cu meters which is about 4200 cuft - which we consider a medium size room. The sub you picked - Basso 830 - I highly doubt be sufficient to enjoy real HT experience and I think you should bump it to atleast Basso 850

Regarding Wireless network:
No receiver would "create" a wireless network - you'd need to get wifi access point and configure it. then connect receiver and your iDevice

The Panasonic TX-P50ST30 was simply not available at the shop, but I guess I could order t. I could however look for it... As far as i know, the THX certificate states that the audio of the device is "good", but since it should be connected to the receiver and speakers, it shouldn't really matter, right?
As for the advanced calibration setting, I have no idea of what you are talking about...

Will consider the Basso 850 then and since there is no big difference in size, go for it...

As for the network (never installed a wi-fi "network", all I ever used was interconnected through the internet network created by the usual routed and Mac features...)...
Buying a Mac AirPort Extreme would solve my problems, right? Connect it to the receiver through the Ethernet cable and all the devices will be able to connect to the network.. But will this allow me to also display my monitor on the TV or play movies with audio that goes to the home speakers?

 

[mgergolet]

Just double checked, the AVR-1912 most certainly does not have a second amplified zone....

Multi-Zone Capability
Zone 2: Denon's Zone 2 function lets you select a different audio source for listening in a second location of your home (powered output only, there is no line-level Zone2 output). The AVR-1912 features a Main Zone (audio/video) and Zone2 (audio only). The Main Zone offers 7.1-channel playback of your audio/video gear in your main entertainment room. Zone 2 allows stereo audio playback of another source connected to the receiver in another room of your home via speaker level outputs. When using the AVR-1912 to power speakers in a second room of your home, the main zone is restricted to 5.1-channels.

Compatible Zone Sources: Only tuner, analog, USB, and Network sources can be played in Zone 2. You must currently be listening to a USB device or Network audio source in the Main Zone to initially select USB or Network as a source in Zone 2. Then you can switch the Main Zone to any source you desire. You cannot select different AM/FM radio stations or different Network content for different zones.

Note: To hear Airplay in Zone 2, the Main Zone must also be playing Airplay. You can have other sources playing in Zone 2 when the main zone is using Airplay.
Incompatible Zone Sources: It is not possible to play the digital audio signals from the HDMI, Coaxial, or Optical terminals in Zone 2. Video cannot be sent to Zone 2.




This is what I found about Zone 2...

The Video is not an issue because I don't plan to put a monitor in Zone 2, but my goal is to be able to watch a movie and at the same time listen to Music (coming from: iPod or DVD player) in zone 2. From what I understand, the iPod is meant to be connected via AirPlay, but this will not work for zone 2. The DVD/Blueray player is usually connected with the HDMI cable (receiver->TV), so here again it won't work...

Am I right?

Is there a better receiver in the price range 500-1000$ for this?

 

[Grador]

You have my permission to ignore anything I say....especially after midnight. Denon's website as well as amazon make no mention of a zone 2 function, but I should have grabbed the manual to make sure I was right. (Sorry for the misinformation)

To get playback from the DVD player you should, depending upon your DVD player, you may be able to hook it up with RCA stereo cables as well as the HDMI for zone 2 use.