Turntable Connections

MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
This is probably a stupid question. Why aren't turntables connected to amplifiers / receivers, with optical (Toslink) or HDMI cable?
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Its overkill and too expensive to use Toslink and HDMI for a medium that carries only 2 channels. Only a few turntable models are equipped with USB outputs (digital transmission of the audio signal) The vast majority of turntables remain strictly analog.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
This is probably a stupid question. Why aren't turntables connected to amplifiers / receivers, with optical (Toslink) or HDMI cable?
Some are. Most do not have analog to digital converters. If you are planning to convert vinyl analog to digital, why not just buy the music in digital form - CD, digital downloads etc.?
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Turntables, like tape recorders and tuners, existed decades before digital processing and are, in their native format, an analog source thereby not compatible with the digital SPDIF format. To convert it to a digital format would impose yet another unnecessary processing stage into the signal chain. Most analog aficionados prefer the simplest signal path possible.
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
Thanks for the explanations, I was just curious why in the "21st Century" vinyl tech had not "progressed" like everything else seems to. You buy a device and 6 months later it's discontinued / obsolete! I'm not planning on converting my entire vinyl collection to digital except for maybe some records I can't yet find in another format.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Thanks for the explanations, I was just curious why in the "21st Century" vinyl tech had not "progressed" like everything else seems to. You buy a device and 6 months later it's discontinued / obsolete! I'm not planning on converting my entire vinyl collection to digital except for maybe some records I can't yet find in another format.
Turntables became obsolete when CDs went mass market.

Obsolete technology, but it keeps on selling!
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for the explanations, I was just curious why in the "21st Century" vinyl tech had not "progressed" like everything else seems to. You buy a device and 6 months later it's discontinued / obsolete! I'm not planning on converting my entire vinyl collection to digital except for maybe some records I can't yet find in another format.
Turntables have progressed to the 21 Century by going USB. ;)
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks for the explanations, I was just curious why in the "21st Century" vinyl tech had not "progressed" like everything else seems to. You buy a device and 6 months later it's discontinued / obsolete! I'm not planning on converting my entire vinyl collection to digital except for maybe some records I can't yet find in another format.
Quite simply, Vinyl hasn't progressed technologically because it is obselete.
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
Optical (Toslink) is a digital interface; turntable signals from the cartridge motor (a cartridge generates it's own AC voltage signal) are analog, as is the input to the RIAA filter / small-signal amplifier in a preamp.

An HDMI cable could be used with a turntable, but isn't. There are critical parameters that must be addressed between the cartridge and phono preamp, in particular minimal capacitance, that HDMI cables are not designed to address.

In other words, although you could, with some DIY'ing with a Dremel and some soldering, make the necessary mating connectors fit, and then use an HDMI cable, you would not be using the best connection and probably would be making a poor connection that fails to address the electrical requirements needed for optimum signal transfer.

Specifically, any excess capacitance would roll off the High Frequency response of your cartridge.

As it turns out, you have asked about a connection that has unique conditions; the Cartridge to Phono Preamp interface is special because of the extremely small voltage signals involved.

Remember there are no dumb questions so don't fret over asking anything you are curious about; you will always learn something.
 
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MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
Is there a noticeable difference from to MM phono cart and a MC? My gear is:

A/V Receiver: Yamaha RX-A1020
Turntable: Marantz TT42 with Dual MM Cart.
Cambridge Audio Azur 651P MM/MC phono pre-amp.
Main speakers: All Definitive Technology, Studio Monitor 55's L&R, ProCenter 1000, ProSub 800.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes.. Moving Coil (MC) cartridges have much lower output than a Moving Magnet (MM) cartridges requiring a pre-amp stage dedicated to their output levels. You would need to purchase one because the Yammy 1020 can only deal with MM cartridges .
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
And, CDs will not be as obsolete as consumer cassette tapes already are!
Not to dispute what you are saying as I agree with you bu I read somewhere that cassettes are still being manufactured... and I wondered why??
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Not to dispute what you are saying as I agree with you bu I read somewhere that cassettes are still being manufactured... and I wondered why??
Perhaps broadcasting. I know for certain that magnetic tape is still used and still very important for server backups and computer use, etc.

But, I was specifically referring to cassette tapes for home consumption. D-E-A-D and I couldn't be more pleased at the death of a terrible playback format.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Perhaps broadcasting. I know for certain that magnetic tape is still used and still very important for server backups and computer use, etc.

But, I was specifically referring to cassette tapes for home consumption. D-E-A-D and I couldn't be more pleased at the death of a terrible playback format.

Like I said....why??? :confused: Don't shoot the messenger.

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2015/09/the-cassette-tapes-comeback.html

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/2015/09/30/cassette-tapes-are-back-but-whos-listening.html

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/12/retro-tech-2015-was-an-astounding-year-for-one-cassette-tape-factory/
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
So the reason why turntables use a AC power adapter brick / dongle is to convert 120 volts AC down to 12 or so volts DC, just enough power to spin the platter? One would think an engineer could make that cumbersome brick much thinner, so as to fit along the rear of the turntable, then a normal power cable to the wall or whatever. I may end-up plugging all my adapters into a power strip, than plug that strip into the wall or the surge protector / power manager device.

A/V receiver: Yamaha RX-A1020
Blu-ray: Yamaha BD-S477
VHS: Toshiba DVR620KU (plays VHS, plays/burns DVD although now mine is kaput)
Turntable: Marantz TT42
Phono pre-amp: Cambridge Audio Azur 651P (handles both MM / MC cartridges)
CD: Marantz CD5004
Amplifier: Niles SI-2100 to drive rear surround speakers.
Main speakers: Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 55.
Center: DefTech ProCenter 1000
Sub: DefTech ProSub 800
side surround speakers: Cambridge Audio Minx Min 10
rear surround: Cambridge Audio Minx Min 10
Display: Sony Bravia 50" LCD TV
speaker wire: right now a Frankenstein mess. Will probably change it all to 12 AWG.
Everything above power cables connected into a Panamax M4300-PM or Panamax M5300-PM
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
No offense, but I think you're young and think that nothing existed before what you're exposed to today. Consumer audio goes back about 60 years and has changed a lot over the years, and not always for the better.

Two of my turntables (belt drive Rega Planar 2 from 1998, rim drive Elac/Miracord 50 H from 1973) use 120 vac motors. My other turntable (Philips 887 from 1981 or so) is a direct drive but all needed electronics is contained within the base.

Both plug directly into the wall. Neither of them require a "dongle". That must be a new idea but I do see many products are now going to using wall warts and such. My new BOTL Blu-Ray player uses one.

Now, maybe TT tech has changed drastically but that would be news to me. I've never had a hum/noise problem. Could it be a cost saving measure?
 
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