Tubed Pre-Amps And Amps VS. Solid-State Pre-Amps And Amps

[mulester7]

.....I would like to hear comments from those who have owned both and experienced both....no conjecture, please......

 

[johsti]

Mulester, I don't have much to offer as far as comparison between the two, but from my understanding, the tube preamp does 90% of the "tube" sound. I've heard that a tube pre-amp + SS Power amp is a great way to go if that's what you're after.

I just inherited an old tube amp/preamp and tube tuner. I first hooked my source up to just the tube amp. It sounded good. I then hooked the source up to the preamp>amp and then it sounded really good. The preamp in the equation really made a diiference. Made everything much fuller, louder and more powerful.

You might find this article interesting

http://www.soundstage.com/noisy04.htm

 

[mulester7]

I've heard that a tube pre-amp + SS Power amp is a great way to go if that's what you're after

.....I wasn't expecting gold this quickly....great report from experience, Johsti....I told you guys one time I might ask a McIntosh tubed pre-amp to be my lovely bride, didn't I?....huh?.....

 

[johsti]

check out this little guy

http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/foreplay3/foreplay3.htm

 

[JoeE SP9]

I currently use both. I have a tube preamp and I use tube power amps to drive my front ESL panels. I use solid state amps for my subwoofers and rear ESL panels. My rig is listed under member systems.

 

[mulester7]

I currently use both. I have a tube preamp and I use tube power amps to drive my front ESL panels. I use solid state amps for my subwoofers and rear ESL panels

.....Joe, can you give me a listening report on what you hear with a tubed pre-amp that made you choose it over a solid-state pre-amp?.....

 

[VS540]

I have heard the same thing that johsti said. Plenty of people of use a tube pre and a SS amp. Some say this gives you the openess and bloom of tubes, but with more refined bass from the SS.

 

[mcwho]

Tube Power vs SS Power

I may be wrong, but I thought the Tubed amps shine in the Power section. I had an experience almost 20 years ago like one i read recently about a fellow looking at a new amp. Back then I had Tubed Dynaco pre and power amps, mono units and big and heavy.

Well I was ready to plunk down money on a new Hafler solid state amp, where i bought the speakers in Chicago at Chicago SPeakerworks, it was a nice satellite system with a sub.

We cranked up some direct to disk music on the Rega Turntable, and listened to Lincoln Mayorga and Amanda McBroom, and willies "stardust album"

The Dynaco's had more extended highs and fuller bass, so no sale on the tranny Hafler. I still have the Dynaco;s, and the Rega, and the CS speakers.

Now looking at NAD, Axioms, and a good sub.

 

[JoeE SP9]

.....Joe, can you give me a listening report on what you hear with a tubed pre-amp that made you choose it over a solid-state pre-amp?.....

I don't know how to describe it. I can listen longer and seem to get more pleasure from a listening session. My lady friends who are interested in sound quality (there are some) all say tubes sound smoother and sweeter than the solid state preamps I have substituted in my rig. They include various Adcoms, a MacIntosh, a Threshold and a Levinson a buddy brought over. I have been using an ARC preamp as my primary ever since I bought an ARC SP-3 in the early 80's. I have never liked ARC solid state preamps as much.

 

[JoeE SP9]

I may be wrong, but I thought the Tubed amps shine in the Power section. I had an experience almost 20 years ago like one i read recently about a fellow looking at a new amp. Back then I had Tubed Dynaco pre and power amps, mono units and big and heavy.

Well I was ready to plunk down money on a new Hafler solid state amp, where i bought the speakers in Chicago at Chicago SPeakerworks, it was a nice satellite system with a sub.

We cranked up some direct to disk music on the Rega Turntable, and listened to Lincoln Mayorga and Amanda McBroom, and willies "stardust album"

The Dynaco's had more extended highs and fuller bass, so no sale on the tranny Hafler. I still have the Dynaco;s, and the Rega, and the CS speakers.

Now looking at NAD, Axioms, and a good sub.

The old Dyna tube power amps (MKIII's) have a nice big fat bass. I believe solid state has a cleaner deeper bass. Of course a lot of this depends on the size of the output transformers. The bigger they are the better the bass.

 

[NGL_BrSH]

I am currently reading G. Randy Slone's book High-power audio amplifier construction manual which i hightly recommend. In it there is a very convincing objective evidence that tubes really are a major waste of money for alot of reasons. I will come back tomorrow and post all of his reasons since i left the book at work :\
But i'm convinced.. seems they are very unefficient, high THD, bad S/N
and are very colored.. but it explains why to some subjective people that tube may sound better in their heads. Which is where i disagree with Mr. Slone because i feel if you like the sound better.. do it. Personally i'm going for sonic accuracy and a solid state amp is far better for that. I mean.. recording studios which make thier livelyhood reproducing musically need to have the most accurate equipment to get the best result. None that i know of use any type of tube for any of that. And they can get whatever they want. Seems convincing enough for me on that statement alone however i will post his amazingly long list of tube vs solidstate amplifiers.

He doesn't mention tube pre amps, so for that i have no input for neither hearing them personally or factual results.

 

[johsti]

I'm sure solid state is more accurate, but there is something about the way a tube amp/preamp sounds. I've been playing guitar for 20 years or so, and I will never own a solid state guitar amp. I don't care how good digital processing is these days. You will never get a tone like a good tube amp with SS. It is so much thicker and fuller than solid state. Yes, tube amps are finicky. You might need to set it at a certain volume to get the tone you're seeking or replace tubes periodically, but it's worth the tweaking. Fender, Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Vox etc., they all use tubes for a reason.

I'm starting to think the same goes for music and home audio tube amps. You can show me all the graphs and THD specs to prove otherwise, but there is something about the tube sound that is so pleasing. Yeah, it does add color, but it's not like you just set your sony HTIB to Hall mode or something. It's not an artificial coloring. I guess you either appreciate it or you don't. I think for a 2 channel music setup, tubes are woth checking out.

 

[cornelius]

It's funny because I've listened in some pretty major recording/mixing studios and most of their amp speaker combos are pretty horrific.

Of course, a lot outboard gear that I see engeers and artists use, has tubes. Also, what is accurate? I've heard the exact same speaker/amp combos in one control room, sound completely different in another - which one is accurate? I've heard some pretty popular "accurate" SS designs that sounded grainy and bright, but measured really well.

 

[jaxvon]

I am currently reading G. Randy Slone's book High-power audio amplifier construction manual which i hightly recommend. In it there is a very convincing objective evidence that tubes really are a major waste of money for alot of reasons. I will come back tomorrow and post all of his reasons since i left the book at work :\
But i'm convinced.. seems they are very unefficient, high THD, bad S/N
and are very colored.. but it explains why to some subjective people that tube may sound better in their heads. Which is where i disagree with Mr. Slone because i feel if you like the sound better.. do it. Personally i'm going for sonic accuracy and a solid state amp is far better for that. I mean.. recording studios which make thier livelyhood reproducing musically need to have the most accurate equipment to get the best result. None that i know of use any type of tube for any of that. And they can get whatever they want. Seems convincing enough for me on that statement alone however i will post his amazingly long list of tube vs solidstate amplifiers.

He doesn't mention tube pre amps, so for that i have no input for neither hearing them personally or factual results.

Right and wrong. Most studios use solid state amps for their monitoring purposes. However, I don't think there's any big name studio (or midlevel studio for that matter) that *doesn't* have tube gear. Tube preamps are very popular for microphones, as are tubed guitar and bass amps. Check out the offerings from Groove Tubes and Manley Labs, they're both quite prevalent in the studio world.

 

[JoeE SP9]

Before any one "disses" tube amps go listen to one. If you still don't like them after an audition so be it. Most people easily hear why tubes are better. Better yet get some tubes on loan from a dealer. Over a weekend you will be seduced.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

My brother is a musician (plays all types of guitars - studying classical right now), and describes the difference between the two amps as a tube being "throaty." I asked him to explain further. He said, "you know that deep full sound you hear from the back of a Mustang GT with aftermarket dual exhaust - that's throaty."

Tubes add just the right amount of distortion to open up the sound, and seem to add depth to the music. It's definitely not for everyone, but most who've owned or heard tube amps/pre amps seem to like their sound.

 

[Johnd]

Where is highfihoney with his $100,000 McIntosh tube system when you need him?

 

[JoeE SP9]

Where is highfihoney with his $100,000 McIntosh tube system when you need him?

He may be above all this. He may be sitting at home listening to that $100K tube system. Tubes do make you want to listen more and for longer periods of time.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

No, the big question is - where is mtrycrafts when you need him?

 

[Sheep]

He may be above all this. He may be sitting at home listening to that $100K tube system. Tubes do make you want to listen more and for longer periods of time.

Wow, you say it like its a fact.

I happen to have a solid state Guitar amp AND a Tube head (goes with a Cab). I like the sound of the tube amp for undistorted guitar, but the solid state excells with heavy distortion. Its also more forgiving when cranking up.

As far as audio equipment goes, I only what speakers to put a sonic signature on sound, not a pre/pro.

SheepStar