Truth v. Beauty

[---k---]

http://stereophile.com/features/306truth/

I posted this in a thread got moved to the SteamVent. Several people had good reactions to it. So, I thought I would post it again, and see if we can get a wider discussion on what people think. Hopefully, if everyone remembers that there is no right and wrong, just people's own opinion, this won't get moved to the Steam Vent.

I know it is a long article, but try and make it through it. It is worth it. I'll go first.

I'm a truth seeker. I honestly don't trust my ears, so it is much easier to rely graphs and charts of what is the most accurate. It is the lazy man method. I invited a friend over to my house a while back when I was demoing speakers. He is an experienced musician and DIY speaker builder. It was amazing to sit next to him and have him point things out in the music that I should be listening for. I would have never heard some of the minor issues unless he would have pointed them out. So, who am I to say which is better if I can't hear it. So, I go for the graphs. It is easy! Flattest wins!

But, there is a little nagging voice deep down inside me. It keeps telling me that the graphs and specs don't tell the whole story. FR graphs arn't going to tell you anything about who big and wide the sound stage is. The typical single FR graphs don't tell you all about max playback levels. And, if every speaker was perfect according to the graphs, wouldn't they all sound exactly the same? Ughh, there wouldn't be warm speakers or bright speakers, just a single accurate speaker. But, different pianos or guitars will have a different sound, and musicians choose the instrument they use based on their preference. So, why can't I have my own preference and add a little colour to everything to suite my preference?

Would love to hear your thoughts. Remember, there is no right or wrong.

 

[leelee]

Here's a guy who porports to hearing differences in transports.

Sorry, if he heard a difference, one of them is broken.

Never mind the rest of this long, dry, and non-commital article.

 

[Ilkka]

Just before I go any further, we are now talking about speakers, not subwoofers? Because there are some pretty big differences between how to interpret speaker and subwoofer measurements.

 

[---k---]

LeeLee,
That is exactly the type of thing I didn't want, because I fear it will get us into nothing but an ugly arguement, and lead to the thread being closed. Let's hear about your experances, and not judge others. I mean, what do I care if he claims to hear a differance - not hurting me. But, that doesn' prevent me from saying I can't, more power to Larry (the Author).


Ilkka,

The article is specifically about transports, but I think it applies to speakers and subs as well. And, I don't think that there is an issue with saying: I seek beauty in speakers, but in subs I think there are a lot few varibles so therefore the best graph/specs wins.

Make it about whatever you want, as long as it is about you!

 

[ssabripo]

I see it two ways Ryan:

The human ear is more keen on the 200-2k hz range than either above or below (just more keen, that's all....), and thus:

1. When talking about speakers, there are several aspects that graphs and measurements can't really tackle (although they do help point it out when it is an obvious flaw): Imaging, depth perception, acoustical signature (warm ->neutral ->bright), sound staging, etc.
With speakers, I usually tend to listen just with my ears, and if something is not up to snuff, I will check the measurements and graphs to see if something is showing up.

2. Subwoofers, I would say half and half for me. There is a strong correlation between what a sub measures and how it sounds....it's certainly not linear, but it is quite accurate. Flatter FR, the lower tuning, the group delay and decay responses, etc, they all relate fairly closely to how the sub "sounds".....BUT, I would never buy a sub strictly on "measurements" or viceversa.

come to think of it, I don't think I will ever buy a sub...PERIOD!

DIY fo' life baby!!

 

[JennAir]

Pretty much goin' along with the group here. You can take two different speakers that both measure flat but one will sound completely different from the other. There are a lot of different tweets and woofs out there and they all add their own texture to the sound.
Measurement graphs are a starting point, not the finish line.
Buy what sounds good to you and be happy!

 

[Steve42]

Measurement graphs are a starting point, not the finish line.
Buy what sounds good to you and be happy!

Yep, that about sums it up for me. Short and sweet. This apply's to speakers and subwoofers as well all audio equipment in my case. Measurements for me are for reference, and my ears decide what I like and own.

That article was indeed great and in my mind can be applied to just about all audio equipment. Of course speakers will have more differences that can be heard more easily than other equipment generally. But the point is I want to own audio gear that I like. If it measures the best so be it. If not, I really don't care as long as I like what I'm hearing.

But that's just me.

Thanks again for posting that article Ryan!

Steve

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

-

-K-- ...But, different pianos or guitars will have a different sound, and musicians choose the instrument they use based on their preference. So, why can't I have my own preference and add a little colour to everything to suite my preference?

Yes, and actually, the SAME piano's will have a different sound. A good friend and I were researching $25,000 - $35,000 piano's for his wife. He had to "downgrade" to Yamaha because the Steinway's were much too high for his budget. What we found out was that no two piano's sounded the same. Even if they were made to exacting tolerances, they still had a signature sound. When you buy a piano, you normally buy what's on the floor because you know the sound characteristic. If you were to order one, the dealer can in no way guarantee that signature sound you originally fell in love with. It really was an eye opening experience.

As far as truth versus beauty, I'll take beauty. No two instruments sound the same since no two people can play them the same. No two rooms will sound the same, and no two people will hear the same nuances. This can be an argument for truth - to make it as honest as possible. Nothing wrong with that. I'm an eq guy - I'll spend hours balancing out the room, and tweaking the bass, midbass, mids, highs, etc... to my liking. Trim controls - in. Flat - out. I feel that unless you have a perfect recording, every song needs a little bit of help. Most systems can benefit here. There's only a handful of cd's that simply sound outstanding without any tweaking. In the speaker world, everything makes a difference. I don't know of one midrange that will reproduce a live trumpet correctly. There are some that come close, but not to perfection. The jazz band director in college had a wonderful McIntosh system, and would play some outstanding recordings. Once in awhile, he'd get out his trumpet, and play along. It's amazing how great a system sounds until you hear the real thing. He said it's always a quest to mimic a live performance.

If you haven't been to a live performance in awhile, definitely go. And get good seating. It'll get you back into the music and out of the technology - at least until you get the upgrade bug.

 

[JeffD2.]

-..........If you haven't been to a live performance in awhile, definitely go. And get good seating. It'll get you back into the music and out of the technology - at least until you get the upgrade bug.

Thanks Buck for that great suggestion. I plead guilty to the techno side. Nothing like the real thing. I'm motivated and I'm sure wifey will like it too.