True or False: A 1,000 watt subwoofer sounds better and more powerful than a 400 watt subwoofer

[audioboy9317]

I have a 25' by 16' by 10' tall room that is going to be a dedicated home theater. Im learning about subwoofers, but I am confused about the wattage rating and if its really important. I have been looking at the SVS PB 3000, the Monolith 13", and a Klipsch sub. I dont know what to pick. According to people I know, I need 2 of these subs due to the size of my room.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Pogre]

There isn't a black and white answer. It depends. Gonna need a whole lot more detail about the subs in question. It is possible for a 400 watt sub to outperform a 1000 watt sub.

*Edit: personally I like the Mono 13 out of your choices tho!

 

[ryanosaur]

Wattage of the amplifier is not a good metric for determining Subwoofer performance. Without knowing the Sensitivity of the Driver itself, the wattage tells you nothing but how much power the Amp can potentially provide.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well, as said wattage is probably one of the least important metrics to use as a guide. Helpful, but overstated. The absolute BEST way to find out , is to read subwoofer reviews like those right here, that measure frequency response, and totally output. There are other measurements like cea 2010 that level the playing field as well. As far as what you NEED, we’ll that’s relative lol. But I agree with whoever told you to get two subs. Imo, the pb3000 from SVS is their best value, and a very special subwoofer. Depending on how open the entire space is, they should do very nicely. However, there are a few more fish in this sea. How much do you want to spend?
Btw. It’s good that you’re asking first. And imo, scratch Klipsch off the list.

 

[ryanosaur]

Your room size is large for certain, and bordering on extreme.
Is that the total open room measurement, or just the space where the system will be? If that space opens up to a larger area still, you would want to go for larger Subs. That Monolith 13" is a beast according to Shady's review. I would steadfastly avoid Klipsch, and frankly, I don't think the PB3000 is going to be worth the cost after SVS' price hike taking effect in just a few days time.

"Needing" two is a common recommendation, which we tend to support, that is more about smoothing the Bass Response in your room rather than increasing SPL. Yes, you will get a small bump to SPL when adding another Sub to your room, but more importantly you will be exciting different Room Modes which will help fill in nulls or cancellations that adversely affect the Frequency Response (hence, smoothing the response across multiple seats).

There are some great articles here on AH about interpreting the review data and understanding what measurements actually mean and what is important for consideration. Better understanding how good quality Bass behaves in a room and the distortions that can be detrimental to a Subwoofer performing in a linear fashion will make you a much more informed consumer and better shopper.

Understanding Subwoofer Review Distortion Measurements Part III

In this article, we attempt to shed some light on subwoofer distortion graphs so any reader can follow them to get a better understanding of how the subwoofer objectively perform in our reviews.

www.audioholics.com

Bassaholic Subwoofer Room Size Rating Protocol

This article outlines our test procedure in determining a subwoofers room size recommendation based on its max CEA SPL output while making room size and subwoofer distance assumptions.

www.audioholics.com

Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips

Do the Subwoofer Crawl. It's the easiest way to find the proper placement location for your subwoofer to get the best performance and sound.

www.audioholics.com

 

[audioboy9317]

16' by 25' is the total room size. I had been told the Klipsch dont perform as well...........but when I google home theater equipment, their name is everywhere.

I also saw where the pb 3000 cost is going up on Monday, so that will probably steer me to the Monolith.

I will do some more reading of the reviews on this website. But from what you responders are saying, I shouldnt buy the largest watt sub and think thats the best one I can get. There is more to it than that.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

16' by 25' is the total room size. I had been told the Klipsch dont perform as well...........but when I google home theater equipment, their name is everywhere.

I also saw where the pb 3000 cost is going up on Monday, so that will probably steer me to the Monolith.

I will do some more reading of the reviews on this website. But from what you responders are saying, I shouldnt buy the largest watt sub and think thats the best one I can get. There is more to it than that.

Yep. To simplify somewhat…
Every driver(speaker) has a sensitivity, or measure of how easily it makes sound. This can vary greatly depending on the goal of the builder. Then when you put a particular driver in a box, that box and driver will work together and be capable of XYZ output and extension. You can change one variable just slightly, and the subwoofer is a whole different beast.
Also, to the thread title. Assuming a doubling of power translates to 3db of volume, the difference from 400 to 1000 watts isn’t that much. Maybe one the guys can elaborate further in that. My mind isn’t great today.
In any case, the price increase on the pb3000 is not good news despite its performance, and you’ll have to decide if it’s still good enough value. For me, there is Rythmik, PSA, monolith and a couple others to shop with too.
What’s your limit?

 

[Pogre]

A more powerful amp is definitely not a bad thing, but like Bill explained if it's powering an insensitive driver in an undersized box (for example), that extra power becomes a necessity just to keep up with a more efficient design that uses less power.

That said, the Mono 13 looks to be pretty impressive imo and is a great front runner.

 

[lovinthehd]

Klipsch is a large audio brand and sold in many many stores, some not even particularly audio stores. Liking their speakers/subs is a personal taste thing, personally I don't care for much of their speaker offerings and the one Klipsch sub I have (bought on a deep discount), the amp just died recently, am in the process of setting it up for another amp so I can still get some use out of the box/driver. I wouldn't buy another Klipsch sub except maybe their best ones at a deep discount (but my last bunch of subs have all been DIY). The SVS and Monolith are a cut above Klipsch for sure.

Wattage ratings don't mean much for subs without information about the sensitivity of the system (or speakers for their max wattage ratings for that matter). A sealed sub may need a lot more power than a fairly equivalent ported sub, too, due the inefficiency of a sealed design in the very low frequencies and equalization needs. Multiple subs are a good way to go....but mostly about smoothing response thru the room than just spl, altho a second sub does usually provide anywhere from a 2-6dB advantage and having each sub not having to work as hard as a single would is also a good thing....

 

[audioboy9317]

I searched for the sensitivity ratings for both the svs pb3000 and the monolith 13" and couldn't find a thing. I searched through the entire spec sheet. how is one supposed to find that data?

 

[ryanosaur]

You don’t.
That isn’t pertinent information in the grand scheme. Focusing on Amp Power is a red herring.
You need to look at the other components of reviews like the CEA-2010 burst tests, long term compression sweeps, distortion components, etc.
Those aspects of subwoofer behavior are far more important than the TS Parameters of the Raw Driver used in the actual Subwoofer.

Learn what you need to have in terms of Subwoofer output to satisfy your needs in your room. Decide whether Clean Low Extension or Mid Bass Punch (Chest slam) is more important to you.
Once you have those goals decided, compare and contrast your leading candidates against other aspects like connectivity and control built into the Sub.
Cost is always a concern, but I will caution that it is better to buy up rather than down. Go after the single best sub you can allow yourself to afford, then start saving for the second (and third…).
I think any deep search will usually reveal tons of regret for people that tried to save on their Subs by purchasing down below what they need. Good, high-quality linear bass is subtle (until it’s not!) and when you have a good Sub or 4 properly integrated, you should hardly be able to tell they are there until your whole home is falling down around you.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I searched for the sensitivity ratings for both the svs pb3000 and the monolith 13" and couldn't find a thing. I searched through the entire spec sheet. how is one supposed to find that data?

I searched for the sensitivity ratings for both the svs pb3000 and the monolith 13" and couldn't find a thing. I searched through the entire spec sheet. how is one supposed to find that data?

Lol. You won’t probably ever find that spec. That’s kind of a back end thing that just contributes to the subwoofers overall ability to play loud. Or LOUD!!! The sensitivity is meaningless to the end user.
Again, more importantly is the max output measurements from third party reviews. For example…

In the chart you can see max output vs frequency. In standardized tests/reviews this is a yardstick to equally compare different subs. This is what you’d care about.

 

[Pogre]

I searched for the sensitivity ratings for both the svs pb3000 and the monolith 13" and couldn't find a thing. I searched through the entire spec sheet. how is one supposed to find that data?

Yup, like the guys are saying those specs aren't generally going to be readily available, but third party measurements and fr charts that show overall performance are. That's the kind of info you wanna search for. Sites like Audioholics and Data Bass that include performance testing with measurements and charts are a great resource.

 

[Pogre]

The good news is, between the PB3000 and the Mono 13 you're in pretty good shape either way. They're both great subs.

 

[lovinthehd]

What two subs were you specifically thinking of originally?

 

[ryanosaur]

Perhaps a different perspective...
Amp Power is a "spec" that is highly touted by Marketing because everybody likes BIG NUMBERS. It's simple psychology at that point.

However, the actual Subwoofer itself is a complex system, and quantifying that system by a spec which is largely meaningless on it's own is why I say it is a red herring. But to put a finer point on it, let's pretend:
A 90dB Sensitivity on a Driver vs an 83dB Sensitivity... Higher Sensitivity also usually comes with a penalty to deep extension, but where the Driver performs most efficiently, it will perform very well. That 83dB Driver may likely have a lower Fs (Resonant Frequency in Free Air) which means it can play lower more easily, but it's penalty may be slightly less output up higher.
In the grand scheme an overly simplified explanation could show that 512w at 90dB Senitivity will yield approx 118dB at 1m with 2.83v. The same power delivered to the 'less efficient' driver would yield 110dB. That is not insignificant...
Except that in the actual "System" many other variables (port diameter and length, box volume, cabinet tuning... and that is all dependent on the much more varied specs from Driver to Driver) will affect the final product and it's performance metrics. If that higher sensitivity Driver is a Pro Subwoofer Driver, it would require near to 2000-4000w to push its low end performance whereas that lowly 83dB Driver may only need 500-1000w to perform at very near the same level. Again, the complex variables of the overall Subwoofer will have a significant impact on how it performs as a whole.

Hope that makes sense an why we say you cannot fixate on that as a meaningful spec.

Edit:
This overly simplified explanation is why, when looking at many of the reviews for the more often recommended Subs, you see very similar performance metrics with minor variations. One may have a 500w Amp, the next a 1000w Amp, but their performance falls within 2-3dB across most of the spectrum. More differences may show in how each Sub performs in Long Term Output and distortion measurements, and this is why it is more important to focus on those details in conjunction with determining the needs you have to satisfy your goals.