Toshiba REGZA 46LX177 LCD Review!

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Audioholics Robot
Staff member
Now that everyone is doing 1080p these days it seems the next big advance has to do with display “speed”. The new Toshiba REGZA LCD TVs sport 120Hz ClearFrame technology. This means that images are displayed twice as fast on the screen and flicker and display-induced motion blur is reduced. Toshiba is not the only game in town that has this technology but it is definitely promoting it well and introducing consumers to the ideas and concepts behind these faster displays.


Discuss "Toshiba REGZA 46LX177 LCD" here. Read the article.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
I read this review with interest having owned the 52LX177 for a few weeks before returning it. I thought it was mostly pretty good save for the few occasions where the color was definitely wrong - like when Rambo's black hair turned flourescent green when his head was near the flourescent green instrument panel of the helicopter he was flying.

I think I could live with those defects since they were infrequent but decided to return it and use that as the excuse because I had other reservations too - like poor SD quality in some cases that actually hurt my eyes (even though nearly all TVs will be subpar with SD).

So Clint's analysis is that based on measurements it's average, maybe even poor, and yet in the subjective viewing section it mostly gets decent praise. This is the problem I have with reviews. So it's lousy from a technical standpoint but still delivers a decent picture that would satisfy most people?

My intent is not to be critical of the review as I am still undecided if I should pick another brand or just order another Toshiba and hope for a later build date that maybe corrects the problems; rather I'd be interested in others opinions as to how you reconcile the conclusions of professional reviews versus what you see with your own eyes. Nothing is perfect but I was mostly ok with the Toshiba...and yet I returned it and am undecided on how to proceed.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
With all the problems you had with the entertainment cabin, now you returned the TV?:eek:
What are you watching, or just listening right now?
 
Thunder18

Thunder18

Senior Audioholic
I read this review with interest having owned the 52LX177 for a few weeks before returning it. I thought it was mostly pretty good save for the few occasions where the color was definitely wrong - like when Rambo's black hair turned flourescent green when his head was near the flourescent green instrument panel of the helicopter he was flying.

I think I could live with those defects since they were infrequent but decided to return it and use that as the excuse because I had other reservations too - like poor SD quality in some cases that actually hurt my eyes (even though nearly all TVs will be subpar with SD).

So Clint's analysis is that based on measurements it's average, maybe even poor, and yet in the subjective viewing section it mostly gets decent praise. This is the problem I have with reviews. So it's lousy from a technical standpoint but still delivers a decent picture that would satisfy most people?

My intent is not to be critical of the review as I am still undecided if I should pick another brand or just order another Toshiba and hope for a later build date that maybe corrects the problems; rather I'd be interested in others opinions as to how you reconcile the conclusions of professional reviews versus what you see with your own eyes. Nothing is perfect but I was mostly ok with the Toshiba...and yet I returned it and am undecided on how to proceed.
I don't know if you frequent the AVSforum, but one guy actually paid to have his 52LX177 ISF calibrated. They were able to exorcise the green with lots of setting in the service menu and user menu. From what he and his calibrator determined, Toshiba lets their LCD's out of the factory with no grey-scale adjustment whatsoever. Several people checked via the service menu on this model and the HL167 series and the settings were zero across the board for red/green/blue drive and cut settings that can and should be set at a baseline to achieve accurate color. I have a 47HL167 for nearly a full month, and noticed the green push frequently. The straw that broke the camel's back was watching Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End(I had watched it several times in a short period of time on the Toshiba) at my parent's house on their 47" Vizio LCD that I calibrated using nothing more than Digital Video Essentials(same thing I used to calibrate the Toshiba). Scenes that were green on my Toshiba were grey on the Vizio and they looked right. Anything that was black or grey on my parent's set had a green hue on the Toshiba.
One owner on the forum went as far as to ask why they aren't at least accurate from the factory and I believe Toshiba's response was something to the effect that it's not their responsibility to tune the sets for the end user.
It's a shame because if it wasn't for the green I would have kept the set.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
My feelings exactly Thunder18. I've always wondered why with the incredible brain trust on tap, no TV in the history of mankind has been shipped with an accurate gray scale (to the D6500K standard).

I mostly liked the Toshiba but returned it because I only have 30 days to make up my mind and just had some reservations. I really need to pick another TV because I'm getting bored not having a TV in the house. Maybe I should seriously look at the Plasmas that so many have been harping on lately.
 
Thunder18

Thunder18

Senior Audioholic
Apparently the Olevia 747i actually shipped calibrated at D6500K, but that's a very rare case and it was their flagship product. I don't think you should have to pay a calibrator to get a decent picture. You shouldn't have to go into the service menu to fix the color. Why not put the color controls in the user menu and include a reset function in case someone messes it up. I have to say I was a lot more easily satisfied before HD. I couldn't see any difference and honestly I didn't really care at that resolution. Now that I can see the grease in the pores on the actors faces I can clearly see something is wrong and it bothers me to no end.
 
Clint DeBoer

Clint DeBoer

Banned
So Clint's analysis is that based on measurements it's average, maybe even poor, and yet in the subjective viewing section it mostly gets decent praise. This is the problem I have with reviews. So it's lousy from a technical standpoint but still delivers a decent picture that would satisfy most people?
Pretty much. I always try to distinguish between poor measurements and poor subjective viewing. I have to at least keep non-professionals in mind when I do these reviews, and the bottom line is that when simply watching it, the colors and performance were fine. Those interested in more accurate results will be sure not to ignore the measurements and will translate that into what it means in a real-world scenario.

When I hit a set that bands and/or has very obvious issues you really know it.
 
J

jlahk

Audioholic Intern
I may not understand the concepts correctly, but why does a speed greater than 60Hz matter if the source material contains no more than 60 fps?
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
I may not understand the concepts correctly, but why does a speed greater than 60Hz matter if the source material contains no more than 60 fps?
Most source material isn't necessarily 60Hz for example most film is done in 24Hz.

LCDs suffer from image blur where a fast moving image stays on the screen slightly (but visibly) longer than intended. Sometimes known as trailing this problem is due to the nature of LCD technology - having a faster refresh rate helps this problem by in a sense erasing the screen more often.

Another plus of properly done 120Hz refresh is that if your player does 24Hz output rather than having to deal with 3:2 pulldown to make the 24 frames match up to 60 you can just show the same frame 5 times and have less video issues.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
... I have to say I was a lot more easily satisfied before HD. I couldn't see any difference and honestly I didn't really care at that resolution. Now that I can see the grease in the pores on the actors faces I can clearly see something is wrong and it bothers me to no end.
See what happens to us when we know a bit more:D
 
J

jlahk

Audioholic Intern
Most source material isn't necessarily 60Hz for example most film is done in 24Hz.

LCDs suffer from image blur where a fast moving image stays on the screen slightly (but visibly) longer than intended. Sometimes known as trailing this problem is due to the nature of LCD technology - having a faster refresh rate helps this problem by in a sense erasing the screen more often.

Another plus of properly done 120Hz refresh is that if your player does 24Hz output rather than having to deal with 3:2 pulldown to make the 24 frames match up to 60 you can just show the same frame 5 times and have less video issues.
Where you don't have 24Hz output though, doesn't the faster refresh rate just reapply the same image more frequently?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
... no TV in the history of mankind has been shipped with an accurate gray scale (to the D6500K standard).
Because the 'general public' has no idea and don't care if they were impressed with what they saw in the store thinking falsely that is how it is supposed to be.:eek:
And, it is the 'general public' that buys most of the sets, not us.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
Because the 'general public' has no idea and don't care if they were impressed with what they saw in the store thinking falsely that is how it is supposed to be.:eek:
And, it is the 'general public' that buys most of the sets, not us.
I want to be part of the general public. :D

I am sick to death of this process of choosing a TV. As I've said the Toshiba was mostly pretty good to my eyes with the exception of the few cases where there was excess green when I thought there shouldn't be (I don't think it qualified as 'green push' where you saw green in the blacks - I never saw that). It was mostly the SD quality that annoyed me and with my limited experience with actually owning an HDTV for all I know that is all you can expect.

So now to add insult to injury :) Toshiba is releasing a whole slew of new models starting February. I've already proven I can go 6 months without TV so maybe I'll wait a little longer to see what these new models can do.

Anyone wanna bet that I'll get my whole house tiled before I pick another TV?
 
Thunder18

Thunder18

Senior Audioholic
So now to add insult to injury :) Toshiba is releasing a whole slew of new models starting February. I've already proven I can go 6 months without TV so maybe I'll wait a little longer to see what these new models can do.

Anyone wanna bet that I'll get my whole house tiled before I pick another TV?
From what I've seen at AVSforum, I'd be surprised if their new models were any different. Both the HL167 series and LX177 series had this issue of not being adequately set from the factory. They didn't want to address it before and I'm loathe to believe they will address it now. I guess we can wait till the new model line is reviewed to see how much work they have to do to get an accurate picture setting. Why they can't just put the setting necessary to calibrate the set accurately in the user's control is beyond me. Hell, add a new button on the remote....all reset. Brings all setting back to the factory defaults. Make it one of those buttons that you have to press with a safety pin so it's not easily activated and there you go.
 
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