Torn!

[Joe Schmoe]

I have two pairs of speakers (Mirage Omni 150s and Polk Monitor 50s) that I like a lot, but in different ways and for different reasons. Whenever I am listening to one, I miss characteristics of the other (for example, Mirages have imaging that no monopoles can hope to match, but the Polks have much more lifelike midrange.) Is it possible to find speakers that have all of the advantages of both and none of the deficiencies of either? If so, what do I do with the ones I have (without taking a huge loss)?

 

[3db]

I have two pairs of speakers (Mirage Omni 150s and Polk Monitor 50s) that I like a lot, but in different ways and for different reasons. Whenever I am listening to one, I miss characteristics of the other (for example, Mirages have imaging that no monopoles can hope to match, but the Polks have much more lifelike midrange.) Is it possible to find speakers that have all of the advantages of both and none of the deficiencies of either? If so, what do I do with the ones I have (without taking a huge loss)?

I guess your going to go speaker hunting again.

But as to the loss, I don't know.. Would you get more for them by selling them on ebay as opposed to trading them in? If you find something that fully meets your needs, maybe the loss maybe a little easier to swallow.

 

[avaserfi]

Joe I am wondering two things: Have you played with acoustic treatments? Proper treatments might be able to give you the imaging you are looking for out of the Polks. Another option is using a quality equalizer to achieve the midrange response you want out of the Mirage speakers.

I know, many people don't like the idea of "dirtying" their sound with an EQ - if you are one of them thats fine, but my question is why? Nearly all commercial speakers impart some sort of sound on the source so they are acting as an EQ in their own way. The difference is with a hardware EQ you have control of the coloration so you can tailor it to your tastes. This will likely be the cheapest solution to your problem and if used with a linear speaker will allow you to achieve any response you could want although ignoring room treatments is still not ideal.

 

[3db]

Joe I am wondering two things: Have you played with acoustic treatments? Proper treatments might be able to give you the imaging you are looking for out of the Polks. Another option is using a quality equalizer to achieve the midrange response you want out of the Mirage speakers.

I know, many people don't like the idea of "dirtying" their sound with an EQ - if you are one of them thats fine, but my question is why? Nearly all commercial speakers impart some sort of sound on the source so they are acting as an EQ in their own way. This will likely be the cheapest solution to your problem and if used with a linear speaker will allow you to achieve any response you could want.

The mirage are omni directional. Do you think its possible to achieve this thru room treatments?

 

[avaserfi]

The mirage are omni directional. Do you think its possible to achieve this thru room treatments?

Room treatments will help. There are three things that determine imaging (given in order of important): 1) room acoustics; 2) symmetry of response 3) treble response.

The second attribute will always be different between the two speakers since one is monopolar and the other is omnipolar, but without proper treatments there is great chance than neither pair is working to is full potential. Like I said an EQ would likely be an easier solution, but I would still strongly encourage room treatments in both situations. Especially with omnipolar speakers it is important to have a properly treated room due to unique dispersion patterns

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I keep my speakers (regardless of which ones) away from walls, which mitigates the need for room treatment somewhat. Also my apartment is fully carpeted and I covered the entire wall that I share with a neighbor with acoustic tiles.
Aside from bass traps, it seems that the kinds of treatments that would benefit each type of speaker would be different. In particular, absorbing first reflections is good for monopoles but bad for omnipoles (I think.)
I could search for speakers that offer the best of both, but I don't know if they exist (or are affordable if so.) My Def Tech BP10Bs come close, but have muddier bass than the Polks (also, I prefer keeping them in my HT.)
One other issue is that I like my PSW-10 sub with the Polks (which ironically don't need it as much), but I can't seem to integrate it with the Mirages.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

This morning I swapped the Mirages for the Polks again (not a trivial process.) I will listen tonight and try to arrive at a decision between 1) keep the Mirages, 2) keep the Polks, or 3) ditch both for something new.

 

[flippo]

omni 350's

You could pick up a pair of Mirage omni 350's at Crutchfield.com for 300 a pair

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=12000&i=653OMN350&tp=185

I'm thinking of picking up a pair after christmas - I love the mirage sound. Hoping the special lasts.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Over the long weekend, I moved my Def Tech BP10Bs into the stereo (and spent the time necessary to fine-tune the placement), replaced them with the 8Bs in the HT, and am using the Polks as surrounds. The Polk sub is in the closet because both pairs of Def Techs have significantly deeper bass on their own (a full octave lower, in fact.) I think that the impression of "muddiness" that I had previously was false, and resulted from not being used to the extra extension. Within the range covered by the Polks (with sub), the DTs are every bit as clean and detailed. Their imaging is not quite as good as the Mirages, but certainly close. I think I am happy with this arrangement (for now, at least), and avoided spending more money.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Over the long weekend, I moved my Def Tech BP10Bs into the stereo (and spent the time necessary to fine-tune the placement), replaced them with the 8Bs in the HT, and am using the Polks as surrounds. The Polk sub is in the closet because both pairs of Def Techs have significantly deeper bass on their own (a full octave lower, in fact.) I think that the impression of "muddiness" that I had previously was false, and resulted from not being used to the extra extension. Within the range covered by the Polks (with sub), the DTs are every bit as clean and detailed. Their imaging is not quite as good as the Mirages, but certainly close. I think I am happy with this arrangement (for now, at least), and avoided spending more money.

Joe, the BP10Bs & BP8Bs are fantastic sounding high quality speakers.
Yes, there are other speakers that may do as good a job. But unless you spend a lot more, I doubt that you will get better speakers.

So are you using a stereo preamplifier for your music listening?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

So are you using a stereo preamplifier for your music listening?

I am using a classic Carver integrated from the early '90s. To get separates that sound better would likely cost more than I am prepared to spend. (Plus the Carver is "semi-separate", with an external connection from pre-outs to main-ins.)
(The biggest surprise is that the 8B/Polk combo handles HT duty well enough that I don't notice any "sacrifice" there.)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am using a classic Carver integrated from the early '90s. To get separates that sound better would likely cost more than I am prepared to spend. (Plus the Carver is "semi-separate", with an external connection from pre-outs to main-ins.)
(The biggest surprise is that the 8B/Polk combo handles HT duty well enough that I don't notice any "sacrifice" there.)

Oh, yeah, the Carver is sweet enough.

The Polk Sub should give you plenty of punch for your HT apartment life without worrying about your neighbors calling the cops.

I would definitely have the BP10Bs for full range straight pure direct stereo and the BP8Bs + Polk Sub for HT. That sounds like a winner!

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I would definitely have the BP10Bs for full range straight pure direct stereo and the BP8Bs + Polk Sub for HT. That sounds like a winner!

But, as I mentioned, the BP8Bs extend a full octave lower than the Polk sub. I am not using the sub, because it would be a step down in bass impact compared to the 8Bs on their own!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But, as I mentioned, the BP8Bs extend a full octave lower than the Polk sub. I am not using the sub, because it would be a step down in bass impact compared to the 8Bs on their own!

I knew the BP8Bs were 30Hz-20kHz +/-3dB (Julian Hirsch/Stereo Review).
Oh, did you mean the Polk SURROUNDs?
**hee**hee. My bad.

It is kind of funny that a lot of these "subwoofers" can't even go down to 30Hz @-3dB.

I like NHT a lot. I can't believe their top-of-the-line Subwoofer is rated go down to 26Hz @ -3dB? And the BP10Bs can go to 25Hz @ -3dB? Crazy.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Oh, did you mean the Polk SURROUNDs?
**hee**hee. My bad.

Yes, that's what I meant. The Monitor 50s make pretty good surrounds (although, as I have mentioned elsewhere, I don't think that the quality of surrounds is at all critical.)
In spite of having a 10" driver, the PSW10 only makes it to 40Hz -3dB.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, that's what I meant. The Monitor 50s make pretty good surrounds (although, as I have mentioned elsewhere, I don't think that the quality of surrounds is at all critical.)
In spite of having a 10" driver, the PSW10 only makes it to 40Hz -3dB.

Yeah, surround speakers are not all that important. They are only for ambience effects.
I'm just crazy. I will admit that.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

As much as I enjoy the sound of the BP10Bs, there is a critic inside me who kept saying "big speakers, big sound, big deal (yawn)." This part of my brain is much more impressed by small speakers with sound belying their size, which is what the Mirages deliver in spades. As a result, those are back in my stereo and the DTs are back in the HT (where I can always listen to music on them if I am so inclined.)
Those who have not heard the Omni 150s literally cannot imagine their sound. Even looking directly at one of them during a powerful passage, the brain has trouble accepting that they are the source. This kind of "cognitive dissonance" is not unusual with very expensive minimonitors, but what makes the Mirages even more amazing is that they were cheap! (Only $300/pr MSRP, and I paid half that!)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Unfortunately, it has turned out that there are a tiny handful of CDs in my collection for which the Omni's bass response is not sufficient, after all. (These include Shriekback-Glory Bumps, Ozric Tentacles-The Floor is Too Far, and William Orbit-Strange Cargoes.) Not wishing to break up the Def Tech set in my HT again, I am now bak to the Polk Monitor 50+PSW10. It is really a nice sounding system, so I have no complaints.
Perpetual Change by Yes is my personal theme song!