Top 10 "Must Haves" in a Media Center

In a world with dozens of media center manufacturers and hundreds of choices, picking out a media center can be confusing. What features should you look for? Which ones do you really need? Which features are just "icing on the cake?" Here is a top 10 list of Premium Features composed by Steven Cheung of Vidabox, LLC that represents their philosophies on what they think media centers must have.

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ironlung

ironlung

Banned
One SMALL problem

I love all the possibilities that a HTPC opens up. Ideally it would be ALL sources, pre amp and room correction rolled into one box.

The SMALL problem is content providers don't want their stuff any where near a PC. What is a home theater without content?


10. Dual or more tuners...

That's great if OTA is all you want. SD analog cable can be had without a STB also. Not exactly HD premium content.


9. STB compatibility...

If your using a reciever and STB why add the complexity of another box? What is the cheapest vida box cost? That's alot of DVR rental from the cable company. Let's not forget how much fun and reliable IR blasters are.

I think this is actually the biggest road block in front of the HTPC entry into mainstream. If Dave, Charlie and Bev allowed their conditional access modules be legit in DVB tuner cards and digital cable allowed CableCARD QAM PCI tuners. Then content(even HD) could be LEGALLY brought into the HT.


Right now it is possible to have a HTPC with 4 tuners tuning in Dish Network and it's Canadian counterpart(simultaneously). That includes all SD, HD, PPV, Sport packages and porn. Without a STB, smartcard or subscription.


The only problem is it is completely illegal.



8. Quiet...

I can't argue with that.:)


7.Native, Easy-to-Use DVD Storage & Cataloging Function

That's another nice sounding one. It's another road block from the content providers. I know we all know getting around CSS is as easy as falling off a bike. It is also completely illegal.

Can ANY VidaBOX rip a DVD to the hard drive without modification?

The ability to play and archive HD/Blu disc did not even make the top ten. :confused:


6. The Right Form Factor

I would put the ability to play HD optical discs ahead of the shape of the box.
I will agree that the size and appearance are important but I'll push it closer to #10


5. Hard Drive Failure & Data Protection

Redundant data protection is important for any data you want to keep.


4. High-Quality Video

For OTA HD I'll agree. If your HTPC is getting content from an s-vid or composite connection from an STB it will still look like poop on a stick even upscaled to 1080p for output.

3. High-Quality Audio

Again how good was the content captured. Encoding the sound off the red/black RCA from an STB is not going to give multi channel PCM output.


2. Home Theater-Friendly, High-Quality Outputs

See #4 and #3 above. S video is high quality when all content in the box is 480i.


1. Knowledgeable, Home Theater-Trained Technical Support Staff


Like the good people at VidaBox.:D


----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not picking on an ad masquerading as a editorial. In fact I'll place an order right now. I will gladly ditch my reciever and all sources for a nice quiet all in one HTPC. Show me an HTPC that can play any optical disc, can natively tune a satellite or digital cable provider, output upto 1080p, decode all surround formats and send nice clean/quiet analog output to my amplifier/sub while simultaneously processing any room correction and I'll send my mastercard number to Vidabox.
 
VidaBox

VidaBox

<a href="http://www.vidabox.com/" target="_blank">
Ironlung

Thanks for your thoughts on our Top 10 "Must Haves" editorial. You make some great points.

I can understand your perception of the content providers not wanting to work with PC's but I think things are changing. The proof of that is with YouTube and the major TV networks. Instead of the TV networks suing YouTube for redistributing their shows, they are instead working on striking a deal with YouTube for distribution rights. I think that is a major change that I think will ultimately benefit the consumer and maybe end the DirectTV and cable carrier monopoly on transmitting shows to our television. Obviously, this will take time but I think it's encouraging.

You are also correct in saying that the cost of a Media Center pays for a lot of PVR rental fees. The big difference with Media Center and PVR's such as TiVo is that the Media Center interface is much more user friendly with many additional features that are not found in traditional PVR's. Features such as being able to burn a TV show (such as a football game) onto a DVD to be played back on a standard DVD player (at your buddies house). You also have much larger drive capacities so that you can potentially record many more hours of TV than could ever be possible on a standard PVR. The live TV search functions are really second to none such as seeing all the movies that are currently playing complete with artwork and movie synopsis.

Now I know that the lack of being able to tune in HD from satellite or cable is a real minus right now. That will be fixed very soon when cablecards are made available for PC's in early 2007. With VidaBox, you can upgrade your existing system to cableCARD once it is made available. This is great as it gives customers the ability to upgrade later without having to buy a completely new system. Also, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will be release very soon by Media Centers manufacturers. Again, with VidaBox, you can upgrade to those formats when they are available.

But TV recording is only one feature out of many that Media Centers can do. The DVD playback on VidaBox systems is on par with high end DVD players. Almost all our systems have an HQV rating of 91 or better. The picture quality is truly amazing and will only get better as video card drivers improve. VidaBox systems can also decode all DTS and Dolby Digital formats (except for the new HD formats) or pass them through to your receiver in "Bit Perfect" fashion. All our systems include an SPDIF audio connector for digital audio connection to a receiver. Support for the HD audio formats will come very soon.

Well this post got big very quickly. One thing that I disagree with you on is the importance of form factor and design. The boss (my wife) will not tolerate anything that does not look "pretty" in our living room. She still doesn't understand why we have floor standing speakers instead of the "cute BOSE speakers". You all know why but my wife will torture me forever about it.;)

Sergio DeAlbuquerque
Cofounder

VidaBox, LLC
 
K

kkrambo

Enthusiast
I recently started learning about HTPCs. What can you tell me about these questions/comments.

I don't completely understand the need for dual PC tuners. It seems to me that you should be able to record a program with the PC tuner while watching a different program using the tuner in the TV or set-top box. And you would only need dual PC tuners to record two shows simultaneously. Am I mistaken?

I believe it might be a good idea to have an HDCP compliant graphics card. It seems that this might be necessary if you ever want to upgrade to an HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive. True?

Regarding audio quality, I've read that the audio integrated onto motherboards is notoriously noisy and that an add-on sound card is highly recommended.

Also, I've read that for video games that support 5.1 channel audio, the multi-channel audio can be output only via analog outputs and not over a digital audio output. The digital audio output will work for movies but not games. So both analog and digital audio outputs might be important. Is that true?

Thanks.
-- Kevin
 
VidaBox

VidaBox

<a href="http://www.vidabox.com/" target="_blank">
Hi Kevin,

Those are some great questions.

1: Dual tuners-
Technically your are right. You could use a single tuner in an HTPC for recording and use your set-top box or TV tuner to watch live TV. However, an HTPC is really all about convenience. Having two tuners in the HTPC eliminates the need to use a separate tuning device for live TV thus eliminating an extra remote and switching of audio and video between the different tuning devices. Also, no one watches live TV all day so having two tuners gives you the ability to record two shows at the same time when your not watching live TV. I find myself recording all my favorite shows even if I know I'll be home to watch them live just in case I'm not and the flexibility of recording two shows at the same time is awesome.

2: Blu-Ray, HD-DVD and HDCP-
This is all very confusing right now so the answer to your question is yes and no. As far as HTPC's are concerned, for the time being (meaning the next 6 years), you only need an HDCP compliant video card if you plan on connecting to your display using DVI or HDMI from the HTPC. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD can playback through the VGA connection with no downrezing of the image. This will be the case until the discs implement ICT (Image Constraint Token). The studios have agreed not to implement ICT until 2012. So to answer your questions more simply, you don't need HDCP if you plan on connecting via VGA or component. You need HDCP if you connect via DVI or HDMI. Our tests have found the image quality is just as good using VGA as DVI on HTPC's. VGA has been perfected by video card manufactures so you really will not be losing that much by using that connection. HDCP only pertains to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD playback at the momment.

Here is a link to an interesting article on ICT and HDCP:
http://gear.ign.com/articles/709/709653p1.html

3: Noisy integrated audio:
This not really true. We use high end integrated audio with analog SNR that is greater than 100db. That only matters if you are planning on connecting using the analog connections. The best way to connect to a receiver is using the SPDIF outputs. In that case, it doesn't matter what the sound card is as the digital audio data is simply passed over to the receiver. The only catch is that most sound cards and audio chipsets cannot automatically switch between different sampling rates. The sampling rate needs to be set manually in the sound card driver depending on what you are playing back (44K for CD's, 48K for DVD movies). That's a pain in the butt. All VidaBox systems have auto switching audio chipsets. The sound quality is extremely impressive. No need for a add-on soundcard.

4: Multi-channel audio in games:
We focus more on Media Center than gaming here so I can't answer this question with any great certainty. I think you are correct. Anything that is multichannel that will be passed to the receiver using the SPDIF connection needs to encoded into DD or DTS. So if the game is not, then the receiver will only get PCM stereo through the SPDIF. All our systems do have 7.1 analog surround so you can connect both the SPDIF and analog to your receiver and switch between the two inputs depending on what you are playing back. Systems other than VidaBox might not be able to do SPDIF and analog at the same time. In that case you will need an add-on card.

Thanks for these outstanding questions. Feel free to post any more questions or concerns you might have.

Sergio DeAlbuquerque
Cofounder

VidaBox, LLC
 
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kkrambo said:
I've read that for video games that support 5.1 channel audio, the multi-channel audio can be output only via analog outputs and not over a digital audio output. The digital audio output will work for movies but not games. So both analog and digital audio outputs might be important. Is that true?
What you'd look for here is called Dolby Digital Live! (or DTS Connect) technology that converts multi-channel game audio to Dolby Digital (or DTS) stream in real time.

I don't envision Media Centers to really focus on gaming too much with all the competition from consoles, though it's certainly a concept many DIY'ers have embraced.
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
I missed something AGAIN!!!!!

I thought S/PDIF was on it's way out.

There's the whole lack of bandwidth problem for the future lossless formats.

I want the PC to do all DSP/PEqing. Why offload processing to a reciever that is stuck with old formats? Doesn't that kill half the benefit of the HTPC?

The PC NEEDS to have clean quiet analog output.


Does Vidabox want to be another box in the HT? I want an HTPC as the only box.


Here is my vision of my HT.

King size 1080p display

Polk lsi series x 7

SVS ultra-2 x 2

Outlaw Audio 7 x 200wpc powered amp

Vidabox HTPC as the brains of the whole outfit.
Record Digital Cable without an STB.
Blu/HD/DVD/DVD-A/CD/MP3/anything I did not mention playback/storage.
The HTPC should also have the ability to decode any/all surround formats on any disk/file.
Also just before that clean/quiet analog out sneaks out of the box all room correction should be done in the HTPC also.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't want the HTPC to be one MORE box. I could do all things above with half dozen or more separate boxes.

Reciever or
Preamp
Amp(s)
CD player
DVD player
Blu/HD or both players
tact processors
BFD's
essient fireball/music cast
HD DVR/Tivo
Media streamers etc...

---------------------------------------------------------


We need MS Vista for all the room correction goodies and cablelabs to approve cablecards for PC or a dish provider to allow smartcards in a PC. More than HD OTA and SD-DVD's before I'll plunk my cash.

SD tv, SD-DVD's, dolby digital, DTS are all old news...


I wish the good folks at Vida the best success. Right now an HTPC has limited content or illegal content.


I know, I know next year will be better...always next year.

I have already thrown away 3 calanders waiting for things to get better. I guess they are.

I recieve a whole 2 HD channels more than I did 3 years ago.

I can flip a coin on witch HD disk will make it.

I can ditch my series 2 SD tivo for a series 3 HD tivo and if<---big if the cable cards work (18% don't at tivo community) I have to give up multi room viewing and tivotogo(transfer shows to PC). MRV and TTG are big NO..NO's at cable labs. I wonder what that means for an HTPC. Do you think I'll be able to burn an HD copy of sopranos to take to a friends in my HTPC(legally)?

Yeah next year's gonna be sweet...
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
Ironlung,

You are dead on! Great post. You really summed it up. Waiting is getting old...especially when it is obvious what the community wants.

I wonder...when and if the HTPC truly becomes a "one box solution", will the people who argue that seperates are better than a high end AVR start arguing against HTPCs too?
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
Witch reciever or TV should I buy

Clint DeBoer said:
Nope, this one's dripping with witty cynicism... lol.

C'mon Clint this could be a good thread. Why don't you guys give us the snake oil free version of the way things are in CE right now. If you or the Vidiabox people disagree with some of my points set me right. I am far from an insider and only go by what I see.

HTPC with a (SD only)STB under IR blaster control better than native HD tuning of digital cable or HD dish providers...maybe I just don't understand...I'm getting sarcastic again, sorry:).


I wish things were different. I'm the prime customer. Disposable income to spare, 30 year old, male, no family or children. I've got the money and the love for the gadgets. My hobby is watching tv.

I have my PC hooked up to my HDTV and reciever with HDMI and analog 2 channel sound. I have full control of SD content. I can pull shows from my series 2 tivo strip the DRM and burn SD-DVD of them. I can(but I don't;) ) also get shows and DVDs of various qualitys from bit torrent and watch them on my HTPC. I can also get "some" sat signals at my house thru the PC. All far from point and click easy. No way Granny could pull any of this off:) .

Evrythings cool as long as I don't sell copys of my tivo DVD's, only download non copyrighted material from bittorrent, and the only channels I decode are over the air broadcast or free to air sat. Otherwise I'd have a hard drive full of illegal content(over 150gigs;) ).

Den 3805 or Yamaha 2500 thread more interesting?
 
G

gzyzwc

Audioholic Intern
Ok, I am definatly a newb, and having a real hard time understanding what you guys are talking about. Can somebody dumbify what a media center is, and if I should get one? What are they for? Originally I thought media center meant my entire system, but apparently it is a PC or something used to control all my components?

Also is their an acronym site to help me translat what you all are saying?

IE what do
HTPC
STB
OTA HD
all mean?

Thanks
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
gzyzwc said:
Ok, I am definatly a newb, and having a real hard time understanding what you guys are talking about. Can somebody dumbify what a media center is, and if I should get one? What are they for? Originally I thought media center meant my entire system, but apparently it is a PC or something used to control all my components?

Also is their an acronym site to help me translat what you all are saying?

IE what do
HTPC
STB
OTA HD
all mean?

Thanks


Sorry

HTPC = "home theater personal computer", is just what is sounds like a computer that lives in your home theater.

STB="set top box" like a digital cable/direct tv box

OTA HD= "over the air high definition", this is how CBS, NBC, ABC and other networks get to peoples homes that don't have cable or sat. The channels come in for free on the antenna on your roof. Needless to say there is no ESPN HD or HBO HD or UFC 65 payperview comming in this way.
 
VidaBox

VidaBox

<a href="http://www.vidabox.com/" target="_blank">
gzyzwc said:
Ok, I am definatly a newb, and having a real hard time understanding what you guys are talking about. Can somebody dumbify what a media center is, and if I should get one? What are they for? Originally I thought media center meant my entire system, but apparently it is a PC or something used to control all my components?

Thanks
Let me clarify a little bit more..

A media center is a single device that can essentially REPLACE your entire system, all in one box. It is not a PC that controls other devices, but rather, it TAKES THE PLACE OF your other device. The whole idea is that a Media Center will take care of your TV recording, music, DVDs, pictures, and other video all on one appliance.

Think of a typical home tool box - you have phillips screwdriver, a flat blade screwdriver, a pair of scissors, a file, a pair of pliers, etc.. this tool box can easily be replaced by a Swiss Army Knife.

By that comparison, the Media Center is the Swiss Army knife of your home theater. As mentioned above, it should be able to:

* Watch, pause, & record live television
* Play and store music CD's and view album art
* Play, catalog, and store DVD videos
* Listen & Pause FM Radio
* View, store, and edit digital pictures
* Create automated picture slideshows
* Burn CD's and DVD's to share media
* Sing Karaoke
* Instantly check weather
* Extend above media to other televisions using media extenders
* and more.

Beware that not all devices called "media centers" are actually "media centers." To add to the confusion, some "media centers" are simply PCs with basic media center software installed. If you're looking for a device that covers everything mentioned above, look for a Premium Media Center.

Beyond just having those functions, Premium Media Centers features high-quality, home theater-friendly TV outputs, digital audio interconnects, and features that video & audiophiles have come to love and expect from high-end, high-quality components. They should also be highly stable, feature large storage, and be easy to use.

Feel free to ask if you have any more questions - we'll be glad to answer them!

Sincerely,
Steven W Cheung
VidaBox LLC
 
~JC~

~JC~

Audioholic
Where do the DVDs come from?

If store-bought DVDs can't be ripped onto the hard drive, where do the movies come from? Are media centers typycally HDMI connected?
 
VidaBox

VidaBox

<a href="http://www.vidabox.com/" target="_blank">
~JC~ said:
If store-bought DVDs can't be ripped onto the hard drive, where do the movies come from? Are media centers typycally HDMI connected?
Unfortunately, Media Center manufacturers who are based in the USA can't include the software to decrypt AnyDVD because of legal issues. If someone were to manufacture media centers in a foreign country where the DCMA or similar laws don't apply, giving you the ability to copy AnyDVD is just the simple matter of double-clicking a downloaded file to install a plugin.

The plugin to copy AnyDVD is actually transparent. Once installed, there is no user interaction; everything is done and pre-configured.

As for HDMI, it is not a "typical" output per se, because DVI, VGA, and Component are already available. However, you can get a media center with HDMI outputs, usually as an upgrade.

Hope this helps!

Sincerely,
Steven W Cheung
VidaBox LLC
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Steven - That wasn't to subtle was it?

I will continue to avoid the HTPC until I get my dual CableCard tuner built in, then I will consider it. I really see these as the future, but think that they are still at the early adopter stage with price tags and performance levels that are not in line with the mass consumer market.

#10 should not be dual tuners IMO - that should be near the top. With 90%+ of almost all TV viewing being television, this lack is the fatal blow for me. I won't look or recommend them until this issue is dealt with.

Likewise: #1 should not be an experience staff to support the product. #1 should be a product that is so reliable it doesn't need support. It is the telltale sign of the level of performance that it is thought of as something that will need support. I don't want a good mechanic for my car as the priority - I want my car to be reliable! Likewise, I don't ever want to call the manufacturer about why their product doesn't work - I want it to work. Put good support a bit further down the list for sure as a well engineered product won't need it often.

I will continue to speak out about what I consider the failings of the HTPC are (no matter what name it gets called) until such time as it is not such a techie type product. I have yet to see one that isn't lacking in many critical areas but will be watching for new products as they come to market and will keep an open mind.
 
K

kleinwl

Audioholic
Vidabox = high price?

What I don't understand what Vidabox offers that a DIY HTPC does not offer at half the price. Their website is nice though. :)

I currently building a dual core Intel E6100 box using Zalmon's HD-160 case, DVD-R/W, Seasonic 380W PSU, 2GB ram, 2 250GB HDD in Raid config, A Haupauggn PVR-500 dual tuner, a 7.1 descrete sound card (Creative X-fi) and a 7600 Gforce video card with Microsoft MEDIA Center

This is all really cheap, about $1700 and quiet, about the 24DBA @ 1m measured at (I don't have the high quality austic equipment to make the claim that it is quiet that low, but it is significantly under the 30DBA claim of Videobox):

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article603-page1.html

So, will someone please explain why the videobox is worth an addition $1k, for inferior specs? And really, cheaping out with integrated graphics and sound chips, please. Sure the nvidia 6100 won't chug as hard as an generic Intel G945, but it definitly will not do the graphic upconvert like a real seperate video card. The ALC8800 is not the almighty high quality audio chip that you make it out to be. Realtek's audio codecs suck, quite frankly, almost any descrete sound card from Blue-gear, Creative, or whomever will be a significant improvement.
 
VidaBox

VidaBox

<a href="http://www.vidabox.com/" target="_blank">
Some clarifications for misconceptions

Hello again kleinwl,

VidaBox systems are not meant to be compared against DIY HTPC systems. This isn't a fair comparison, as DIY cost calculations don't take into account the time and labor involved.

Most people who do DIY HTPCs or computers in general do so because it's a fun hobby for them & they find it enjoyable. It's similar to those who build their own speakers, change their own car's oil instead of going to a Jiffy Lube, cook their own gourmet dishes instead of eating out, or change their own water heaters instead of calling a plumber, etc.

It'll always cost more to buy something outright than to "make your own" - but if you're not taking into your "time cost" into account, you're assuming that time and labor has no value and is worthless, which is never the case. On the flip side - buying something outright means that it's ready and good to go.

As for the supposedly "inferior" specs - keep in mind that a number of other options are available, such as a HDMI 1.2, HDCP-compliant card. The 6150 in the standard SLIM does DVD playback and upscaling just fine and gets a respectable HQV score. Perhaps the system with the 6150 chipset you were speaking about was not configured done properly, which is a common source of problems. Of course, nothing beats a dedicated card, and we offer those as options as well.

Most people who would be installing the VidaBox into their home theater systems usually have a receiver that takes in SPDIF coaxial or optical inputs. The ALC880 renders "bit-for-bit" perfect passthrough, meaning that the audio stream is preserved in its pure, original form, and can be processed at the receiver as their native signals (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.) If you're refering to the analog outputs, yes, the ALC880 leaves a bit to be desired, but why use the analog outputs when you can get far superior quality from a digital source? Home theater enthusiasts prefer to use their receiver, which is why the SPDIF output is there.

You will get perfect audio quality when using the SPDIF output - hands down. Analog SNR ratios are irrelevant when the output is purely digital, which is what the standard connection used should be.

Thanks for the feedback!

Sincerely,
Steven C
VidaBox LLC
 
K

kleinwl

Audioholic
Thank you for your kind reply Steven,

I was a little hard on you because I do build HTPCs for people... and I heavily recommend DIY (or at least custom builds). However, I understand that for many having a 24 hr support center is very valuable. I have the advantage that I can do all the set up and technical training personally, which I have found to be helpful in many cases (especially when the customer finds out that his new HTPC can also be his wireless network hub for various peripherals).


I think that most people underestimate how powerful a HTPC can really be... and it is always helpful to show how that extra power can be put to good use...

kleinwl
 
P

pjviitas

Audioholic Intern
Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents on building your own HTPC.

Dual Tuners = more slots = larger case.

If you get a dual tuner on a single card be very careful that its not just splitting the signal without pumping it back up.

Quiet = money and time and probably some fried components.

Smaller form factor = less slots and more cooling problems.

The nominal A/V satellite feed is s-video and analog rca. I know there may be other places in the world that might have component or hdmi feeds but I think that in most of the world s-video/analog rca is the most common.

Hedgehog
 
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