Too good to be true?

[dram]

I am just now looking into buying a receiver and want to get a good deal.. I've noticed some price fixing like for instance the Denon 4806 is priced in one of two categories $3500 from an authorized dealer or $2500 from unauthorized dealers or $2500 for refurbs (through authorized dealers). So I come to those with more experience for some answers.

1. Is it safe to buy these refurbs? Any experiences?
2. Are the "other guys" selling refurbs or new? Where do they get their stock?
3. Since Denon warranties don't cover purchases from the unauthorized sellers, what risks are there.
4. Who would you guys buy from?

 

[bigpapa]

I'd buy a refurb with the warranty. For that kind of money, insurance matters.

 

[Duffinator]

I'd rather buy a refurb with a warranty than new without the warranty anyday. I've owned 4 different refurb receivers from different manufacturers with no problems. I think your chance of getting a bad unit is no different between refurb or new. Let's face it, the reason there are refurb units in the first place is the new units failed. I bought my current Denon 3805 from Dakmark and the warranty was good for one year. I had to replace the remote (common problem) and Denon honored the warranty with no questions asked.

 

[Doug917]

I would look into separates as well. They will give you better performance for the same price. $2500 will give you a few options such as Outlaw, Sherbourn, Emotiva, etc.

 

[AudioSeer]

For that money I would buy a seperate Parasound, Adcom or Outlaw home theater amplifier and find a cheaper Denon or Marantz receiver to use as the decoder/preamp. You'll leave yourself with a better upgrade path.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

If you're sold on the Denon, I'd definitely consider it from Dakmart:

http://www.dakmart.com/website/ItemDetail.asp?ItemId=42758&cID=111

 

[Duffinator]

For that money I would buy a seperate Parasound, Adcom or Outlaw home theater amplifier and find a cheaper Denon or Marantz receiver to use as the decoder/preamp. You'll leave yourself with a better upgrade path.

This could be the ticket. And Dakmart has B stock 3806 with HDMI.

http://www.dakmart.com/website/ItemDetail.asp?ItemId=43296&cID=111

 

[ht_addict]

I would look into separates as well. They will give you better performance for the same price. $2500 will give you a few options such as Outlaw, Sherbourn, Emotiva, etc.

For that money I would buy a seperate Parasound, Adcom or Outlaw home theater amplifier and find a cheaper Denon or Marantz receiver to use as the decoder/preamp. You'll leave yourself with a better upgrade path.

Have you guys bothered to read any the reviews on the 4806? Take a look over at Secrets. Here's a quote,

Look at the low distortion and low noise floor using a 1 kHz test signal. The maximum voltage at the pre-out was an astounding 6.33 volts RMS. That is more like what you find with a dedicated preamplifier. The S/N ratio at maximum pre-out voltage, using 1 kHz, was 125 dB . . . again astonishing

So lets see, you guys are recommending the OP get an inferior receiver with probably an inferior pre-amp stage, less features, less connections and hook it too an amp for a better upgrade path Did I forget to mention that the 4806 has a robust ampstage coming in at 114w x7(0.06%THD) when benchmarked powering 4ohmn speakers

I recommend the OP get the refurb 4806 with extended warranty, down the road maybe add a dedicated amp if he feels its needed. And when the new HD format finally shows up on dvd players you can hook it too the 4806 via the 8 channel input. You'll never get the features or connectivity of the 4806 in a pre/pro for the price off the 4806.

 

[ZoFo]

Inferior pre-amp stage???

How did you come up with that conclusion? Are you going to tell me how much better the Amp Section in the 4806 is compared to a DEDICATED 7-Channel Amp? Have you guys bothered to read any the reviews on the Parasound or Outlaw 990, including reveiws from "The Secrets of Home Theater"?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/outlaw-990-ssp-7125-amp-12-2005-part-1.html


No way would I sink that much money into an AVR when you can have the performance and upgradeability of Separates. With Separates all you have to upgrade in the future is your Pre/Pro when new "must have" technologies are introduced; your Amp will always be there.

Take this comment off the Outlaw board from former Denon owners, now granted they are comparing the 3806 which is not nearly the same animal as the 4806, but it's still a case of AVR vs. Separates:


"I owned a Denon 3802 in the past as well. While not identical to the 3806, I'm sure there are quite a few similarities. I went with the 990/7125 combo and I will never look back at another Denon again. No contest.
I was a devout Denon fan, convinced it was the best product out there in a receiver. I was afraid to make the jump to separates because of the cost. But after looking through this forum, seeing Outlaw's price and taking a chance, Denon simply pales in comparison. If you're considering the move, trust me; make the move! You will not regret it."

"I can't say anything about a 3806 either. I use a 3805 in my bedroom. It's ok, warm and rounded and sweet like a bedroom system ought to be but not even on the same planet as a 990."

"There many, many reasons from my experience the 990 outperforms the Denons. It wins hands down in every category, especially in overall sound quality and don't forget the outstanding customer support from Outlaw, try getting that from Denon."

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

There was a huge difference in amp capability between the 3805 and 4802. While the 3805 struggled with demanding large 4 ohm speakers, the 4802 breezed through them. Hopefully Denon carried that same amp design onto the new 4 series receivers.

 

[j_garcia]

I'm not a big fan of Denon's receivers (mostly the lower models), but the 4801 and 4802 were some very solid receivers. I could hear the limitations of the 3802 but the 4802 was considerably more powerful. I'd expect no less of the 4806, because in all aspects it looks like a pretty big step up from the 4802. A buddy of mine just picked up a 4806 and I'll be setting it up as soon as he gets his speakers.

 

[ht_addict]

How did you come up with that conclusion? Are you going to tell me how much better the Amp Section in the 4806 is compared to a DEDICATED 7-Channel Amp? Have you guys bothered to read any the reviews on the Parasound or Outlaw 990, including reveiws from "The Secrets of Home Theater"?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/outlaw-990-ssp-7125-amp-12-2005-part-1.html

Actually I'm not talking about the comparison of the amp stages of the 4806 via any amp wether Parasound or Outlaw. But what I will point out is that, is unless your using power hungry low ohm speakers in a large room listening at insane levels, you won't be using more than 1-2watts the majority of the time. Don't believe me, then sit in your sweet spot with a SPL meter in hand and listen to something. See what the highest level on the dial is. If the dbl level isn't the same as the sensitivity of your speakers your not even using 1 watt.

No way would I sink that much money into an AVR when you can have the performance and upgradeability of Separates. With Separates all you have to upgrade in the future is your Pre/Pro when new "must have" technologies are introduced; your Amp will always be there.

How much do you think it would cost to get a pre/pro with the features and connectivity of the 4806? Guaranteed it would come close to the price of the 4806.

Take this comment off the Outlaw board from former Denon owners, now granted they are comparing the 3806 which is not nearly the same animal as the 4806, but it's still a case of AVR vs. Separates:


"I owned a Denon 3802 in the past as well. While not identical to the 3806, I'm sure there are quite a few similarities. I went with the 990/7125 combo and I will never look back at another Denon again. No contest.
I was a devout Denon fan, convinced it was the best product out there in a receiver. I was afraid to make the jump to separates because of the cost. But after looking through this forum, seeing Outlaw's price and taking a chance, Denon simply pales in comparison. If you're considering the move, trust me; make the move! You will not regret it."

"I can't say anything about a 3806 either. I use a 3805 in my bedroom. It's ok, warm and rounded and sweet like a bedroom system ought to be but not even on the same planet as a 990."

"There many, many reasons from my experience the 990 outperforms the Denons. It wins hands down in every category, especially in overall sound quality and don't forget the outstanding customer support from Outlaw, try getting that from Denon."

Let me point out that your doing a apples to oranges comparison, so what your comparing is two DIFFERENT products each with its own sound. So what your saying is you like the sound of the Outlaw over the Denon, and how you can conclude that this is because its seperates can not be proven. Sorry. The only way a true comparison of a seperates vs receiver is if both units are built using the same components.

 

[ZoFo]

Features Vs. Sound Quality

True a 4086 will have a few more features like built in XM Radio and DSP Modes like “Jazz Club” and “Stadium” but I will take the improved sound quality and versatility of Separates any day over an AVR that's priced above Separates.

When my Pre/Pro is obsolete I will simply replace it with another updated model and will still be able to use my balanced 200W 7 channel Amp; you will have to replace your entire setup; hell the HDMI in the 4806 will be outdated in a couple of months when the new version, including audio, will be released.

I have no doubt the 4806 is a kick-butt AVR and one of the best on the market if not the best, but it's still an AVR - a $3,500 one at that. For less than $3,000 I can get a 200W balanced system made in America with a TRANSFERABLE 5 year warranty. Check out what the old Outlaw 950 is going for used on Audiogon, a couple of hundred less then the original retail price; AVR's do not have anywhere near the same resale value and none have transferable warranties that I know of.

You are also not going to get anywhere near the level of Customer Support from Denon in Japan; hell Denon has problems translating their manuals into readable English. Outlaw and AV123 on the other hand monitors their User Forum's and responds to customer problems immediately; when users were reporting an intermittent problem with sparkles on some video outputs on the 970 they assembled a team to look into the problem, had it resolved and a software fix download on their website in a week. Try getting that from Denon.

The whole idea behind AVR’s in the first place was to provide an AFFORDABLE and more compact solution to Separates. I am not trying to rag on your selection of the 4806, it’s a damn fine piece of equipment but for that amount of cash I would go for a more powerful & versatile solution but for you I am sure the 4806 will handle all of your needs for many years to come.

 

[cdostrom]

Balanced or Unbalanced subwoofer output connector

I would like to verify that the subwoofer output connector is an unbalanced RCA -type connector. Thank you.