Toe-in my La Scalas?

[Squishman]

I haven't ever tried toeing my La Scalas in. Am I missing out on improved sound? Seems like better imaging if I do not. But I don't know. Before someone tells me "put them wider!" Um no. I live in a mansion, but it's a single-wide mobile home mansion. To the right of the right speaker is a hallway. So save that particular opinion, thanks!

 

[Squishman]

About 12 or 14 feet back from the center is my primo seating position. Behind that is the kitchen, which is an open area to the living room. I often put on tunes whilst working in the kitchen. In case that matters and I imagine it probably does.

 

[ski2xblack]

I haven't ever tried toeing my La Scalas in. Am I missing out on improved sound? Seems like better imaging if I do not.

Seems like you've answered your own question.

Gotta say, La Scalas for essentially near field listening is a bit unconventional. If imaging is what you're after, not to mention better utilization of limited space, you would get better results with smaller monitors.

 

[Squishman]

Seems like you've answered your own question.

Gotta say, La Scalas for essentially near field listening is a bit unconventional. If imaging is what you're after, not to mention better utilization of limited space, you would get better results with smaller monitors.

You obviously haven't heard my set-up. Thanks. Are you referring to not moving them, when you say I answered my own question?

 

[TLS Guy]

I haven't ever tried toeing my La Scalas in. Am I missing out on improved sound? Seems like better imaging if I do not. But I don't know. Before someone tells me "put them wider!" Um no. I live in a mansion, but it's a single-wide mobile home mansion. To the right of the right speaker is a hallway. So save that particular opinion, thanks!

It is hard to predict, so you would have to try it. If it were me, I would get rid of the center speaker. Those speakers are so close together, there just has to be a boat load of comb filtering going on.

 

[Squishman]

It is hard to predict, so you would have to try it. If it were me, I would get rid of the center speaker. Those speakers are so close together, there just has to be a boat load of comb filtering going on.

As hard as I worked on that center speaker? No way. It all started when you tested my pro version of Heresy and the impedence was off kilter so I drove up to Alexandria for this. Funny though: who has one Cornwall to sell? I sometimes wonder what ever happened to the other one.
It is the best sounding of all the center speakers I have tried. And that is around 7 of them I think. Dialog always sucked until I got this.

edit: I am not asking who has one to sell. That was retorical, if that wasn't clear.

 

[ski2xblack]

No, I haven't heard your rig, but I've owned them so am quite familiar.

I don't think you have the room (or the need to accommodate off center listening positions) to mess with time/intensity trading (via extreme toe in, cross-fired in front of the mlp). So that leaves you with more modest amounts of toe-in, to get you more or less on/off-axis, according to your personal preference. [Based on your original post, I assumed you had already done that and concluded that you liked them as they appear in the picture.]

 

[TLS Guy]

As hard as I worked on that center speaker? No way. It all started when you tested my pro version of Heresy and the impedence was off kilter so I drove up to Alexandria for this. Funny though: who has one Cornwall to sell? I sometimes wonder what ever happened to the other one.
It is the best sounding of all the center speakers I have tried. And that is around 7 of them I think. Dialog always sucked until I got this.

edit: I am not asking who has one to sell. That was retorical, if that wasn't clear.

It may help dialog if there is a center channel, but I would have thought the right and left speakers would also have good dialog.

Actually any speaker that has poor dialog has a significant problem, but the converse is not true.

My two channel system has excellent dialog, and my in wall 3.1 has excellent dialog whether in 2.1 or 3.1. I have used my wife as a test subject and she can't tell the difference.

When I evaluate speakers anywhere, I pay a lot of attention to human speech. If the voice is chesty, sibilant or nasal that speaker goes right away into the poor category in my book.

 

[ski2xblack]

Scalas do well in the speech discrimination band. (That's per "old Klipsch fart" standards rather than TLSguy standards, but they do well enough that a rock solid, crystal clear phantom center image is pretty much unavoidable.)

Squish just needs a bigger mansion for those huge speakers!

 

[Squishman]

It may help dialog if there is a center channel, but I would have thought the right and left speakers would also have good dialog.

Actually any speaker that has poor dialog has a significant problem, but the converse is not true.

My two channel system has excellent dialog, and my in wall 3.1 has excellent dialog whether in 2.1 or 3.1. I have used my wife as a test subject and she can't tell the difference.

When I evaluate speakers anywhere, I pay a lot of attention to human speech. If the voice is chesty, sibilant or nasal that speaker goes right away into the poor category in my book.

I have tried various Klipsch centers. The best one before this one being an Academy and this Cornwall blows it away. Of course it is not the woofer/tweeter/woofer design for a center that you do not like. Most others I have tried were.

 

[Squishman]

Anyone notice that my dog Dobie matches the environment?

 

[ski2xblack]

It's for the same reason that those m-t-m centers are problematic that having the CW stuffed between the Scalas could be. You should try the scalas by themselves for comparison. They should throw a very compelling, "reach out and touch it" phantom center image by themselves, where comb filtering/lobing from using all three might obscure that.

If that's satisfying, then you really could ditch the CW, and put a sub there instead. (The Scalas really need some subwoofage.)

 

[TLS Guy]

I have tried various Klipsch centers. The best one before this one being an Academy and this Cornwall blows it away. Of course it is not the woofer/tweeter/woofer design for a center that you do not like. Most others I have tried were.

Actually I like coaxial center speaker design. That center your heard, is a coaxial design in a TL.

 

[Squishman]

Actually I like coaxial center speaker design. That center your heard, is a coaxial design in a TL.

I remember I brought over a mono Motown greatest hits LP. You played my favorite Motown song from that LP, "Tears of a Clown". It sounded just great through that center speaker.

 

[Squishman]

It's for the same reason that those m-t-m centers are problematic that having the CW stuffed between the Scalas could be. You should try the scalas by themselves for comparison. They should throw a very compelling, "reach out and touch it" phantom center image by themselves, where comb filtering/lobing from using all three might obscure that.

If that's satisfying, then you really could ditch the CW, and put a sub there instead. (The Scalas really need some subwoofage.)

I have an awesome HSU 12" sub in the living room. When I play LP's, it's in 2.1.

 

[Squishman]

I decided against trying it. I think I'd lose imaging, especially when playing music working in the kitchen. Also, they are so big that that would take up too much space if I toed them in. Where they are now, they are not in the way at all.

 

[Boerd]

Does Dobie have Dolby sound? I see Dobie is toed in.

 

[Squishman]

Does Dobie have Dolby sound? I see Dobie is toed in.

That wasn't a very good shot of him. This one is better. Bailey is on the right. Both boys.

 

[Boerd]

That wasn't a very good shot of him. This one is better. Bailey is on the right. Both boys.

Very, very cute!

 

[ryanosaur]

About 12 or 14 feet back from the center is my primo seating position

At that distance, those Speakers are WAY too close together.
It is your home and your system, so please don't misunderstand this as anything other than what it is meant to be: constructive and qualified (in that my statement comes with qualifications, not that I am a qualified expert! ).

In my setting, with a seating distance of ~7.5-8', and the mains being ~6' apart (all measured center baffle to center baffle) I am right at the minimum recommended distance for Dolby placement of 22º to the left and right for Mains.

We all have our limitations and have to work with the space we have, so I well understand the compromises we have to make.

Ideally, I would say at the distance you say you sit, mains should be 10-11' apart on center if you are at 12' distance; ~12' apart if you are at 14' distance...
I do not believe in the equilateral triangle, rather the isosceles triangle for listening. With the right placement of Speaker to seating location, you will get everything much better in focus.
Perhaps then, toeing in would be worth considering, but right now, as it stands, you ar only ~17º off axis assuming 13' distance-from, and 8' placement l-r on center...

You are right to not toe them in considering your room.

So unless you move or "remodel..." you do you. If you are happy with the sound, please continue to enjoy.