Toe-in caused my soundstage to collapse

[Electone]

I had my KEF C95s toed-in at about a 45 degree angle towards my listening position in my home theatre. The room is relatively small and I sit about 11 feet away from each speaker. I had a bit of a revelation the other day when I was listening to some music and leaned forward to pick up a drink from my coffee table. The soundstage suddenly opened up and the bass became more focused in the centre, between the speakers. The KEFs are a first generation Uni-Q design and are supposed to have excellent response in both on and off axis listening. Well, I got up and immediately repositioned the speakers with just the slightest of toe-in. It has been an unbelievable improvement in soundstage and bass response. I'm absolutely floored by the difference.

 

[avaserfi]

Good to hear! I just recently readjusted my speakers toe-in as well it ended up tightening my soundstage dramatically as well although I did sacrifice my soundstages size a bit.

I have noticed that just doing these large adjustments is a great way to start but small adjustments help a bit too. I at first had a similar situation, my right speaker almost seemed like it was turned off. Then I toed-in my speakers slightly and it sounded a ton better, obviously. For a while I would listen for a week and then move speakers a bit to get a better sound. I am at a point were I am very happy and done adjusting the speakers. You might want to play with it a little more after some more listening just to get those final touches in.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

All of my previous speakers have sounded best with a lot of toe-in. The owner's manual for my new Bostons recommended minimal toe-in. This seemed odd, but I tried it and it did give me the best soundstage. I think it depends quite heavily on the particular make and model.

 

[mazersteven]

I had my KEF C95s toed-in at about a 45 degree angle towards my listening position in my home theatre.

45 degrees seems like alot.

 

[Seth=L]

Not all speakers are designed the same, there are some speakers that aren't toe'd in at all to achieve their highest performance. My Infinity IL 10s are a good example of another speaker that should not be toe'd in all the way, they don't center well toe'd in 45 degrees and the sound stage is horrible. Toe'd in at about 30 degrees works great for the Infinity IL 10s.

 

[agarwalro]

The balance between imaging and sound stage is governed by toe-in. IMHO, its a trial and error method to find what works for you.

 

[fmw]

This issue isn't toe-in. It is the acoustics of the room in which the speakers are installed. Aiming the speakers at your head provides of combination of near field and reverberated sound. Aming them dead ahead reduces the near field effect. The "soundstage" would always seem narrower with a lot of near field sound. How much reverb, of course, is dependent on the room. Room acoustics represent the great majority of sound quality in an audio system, in my experience.

 

[abefroeman]

Hmmm

This thread is a couple days old but I think I have something to add.

If you toe'd in your speakers 45* and the speakers were 11' away from you, then the speakers would have to be 11' apart for them to be aiming at you. It is more likely that they are 6-8 feet apart and after being toe'd in 45* they are now aiming at your coffee table.

Aim them at or just behind your head, and form an equalateral triangle with you and the speakers. And read the setup tips on this forum.

 

[Johnd]

If you toe'd in your speakers 45* and the speakers were 11' away from you, then the speakers would have to be 11' apart for them to be aiming at you.

No, that would be 30', wouldn't it?

It is more likely that they are 6-8 feet apart and after being toe'd in 45* they are now aiming at your coffee table.

?

Aim them at or just behind your head, and form an equalateral triangle with you and the speakers. And read the setup tips on this forum.

?

The only numbers the op gave were:
1) 11' from speaker to lp
2) 45' toe-in

Which calculates to a 15.6' distance (speaker to speaker).

He then went on to write that a slight toe-in gave the best response, which I took to mean: slight toe-in from 90' (= toe-in).

 

[Seth=L]

No, that would be 60', wouldn't it?


?


?

The only numbers the op gave were:
1) 11' from speaker to lp
2) 45' toe-in

Which calculates to a 15.6' distance (speaker to speaker).

He then went on to write that a slight toe-in gave the best response, which I took to mean: slight toe-in from 90' (= toe-in).

The question marks are cute.

(I have no idea why I made this post, just thought that it would make me sound cool)

 

[Johnd]

The question marks are cute.

(I have no idea why I made this post, just thought that it would make me sound cool)

And I don't get a chicklet for the hand-off (making you look cool)? Not even a thank you?

 

[Seth=L]

Congratulations, you win the random test that I just conceived after reading this following post.

And I don't get a chicklet for the hand-off (making you look cool)? Not even a thank you?

 

[Johnd]

Ha!

I didn't post that...it was the other guy!

Besides, I don't laugh at all your posts (like the other guy), just the funny ones.

 

[emorphien]

This is a funny discussion. I've been playing with my stereo a bit wrt to toe in lately. My surround system has imaged well without any toe in. The sound stage isn't always very phenomenal but then again I've been using those cheap speakers longer than I thought I would and they're still doing ok!

 

[Johnd]

This is a funny discussion. I've been playing with my stereo a bit wrt to toe in lately. My surround system has imaged well without any toe in. The sound stage isn't always very phenomenal but then again I've been using those cheap speakers longer than I thought I would and they're still doing ok!

It is, isn't it?

I can't count the (empty) beer cans on the wall, but I can still calculate simple geometry this late!

At the end of the day, the angle of toe-in is irrelevant, is it not? It is the soundstage (response) that matters. Happy to entertain you. Cheers.

 

[emorphien]

Agreed, I don't much care what amount of toe-in I use in either system, it's just a matter of what sounds right!