To upgrade from Denon 3805, or not?

[genesis471]

Hi guys and gals, Merry X-mas to all!

Okay, question is, I am thinking of selling my Denon 3805 and replacing it with another Denon AVR (a step up or two). Reasons? I want to push my Axioms a bit more, and HDMI availability on the newer receviers is an important feature to me all of the sudden!
I just ordered a Toshiba HD-A2, and realize that TrueHD etc is only output via HDMI, and the unit has no analogue outs. No biggy though. I know I could of got an HD-A1 or XA1 at a great price, but went with the A2 anyways. I have been pondering the idea of selling the 3805 and moving up before the HD players were even out.
So, if I were to move up, what could be suggested from Denon that would be a quality and performance move?
I am going to hold on to my Denon 3910 because of it's outstanding aound qualities for DVD-A & SACD, not to mention, excellent PQ on standard def dvd's.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Nick250]

Hi guys and gals, Merry X-mas to all!

Okay, question is, I am thinking of selling my Denon 3805 and replacing it with another Denon AVR (a step up or two). Reasons? I want to push my Axioms a bit more, and HDMI availability on the newer receviers is an important feature to me all of the sudden!
I just ordered a Toshiba HD-A2, and realize that TrueHD etc is only output via HDMI, and the unit has no analogue outs. No biggy though. I know I could of got an HD-A1 or XA1 at a great price, but went with the A2 anyways. I have been pondering the idea of selling the 3805 and moving up before the HD players were even out.
So, if I were to move up, what could be suggested from Denon that would be a quality and performance move?
I am going to hold on to my Denon 3910 because of it's outstanding aound qualities for DVD-A & SACD, not to mention, excellent PQ on standard def dvd's.
Thanks,
Mike

What is your budget for the upgrade? If you send the video directly from the source to the display (my preference), I think you would have to spend a lot of money to equal the extra capacity you would get from adding a couple of Behringer A500 amps to your existing 3805.

Nick

 

[emorphien]

I'm curious, how reliable are those Behringers and how's the actual sound quality? I'm a little skeptical given the price.

 

[genesis471]

What is your budget for the upgrade? If you send the video directly from the source to the display (my preference), I think you would have to spend a lot of money to equal the extra capacity you would get from adding a couple of Behringer A500 amps to your existing 3805.

Nick

Hi Nick,

I figure I can muster up about $2k for an upgrade.

Off topic, but I have always sent the video directly to the display. Ironically, since I would be adding a Tosh HD-A2, my display suddenly is short on inputs. I have the 3910 going dvi to the display, and my HDdirectv box going component to vid 2. Don't have anymore component or dvi in's (the display is a couple of years old). So today I started re-routing using component switching on the rec'r. My first test (so far all I have done) is with the HD directv box going thru the rec'r. I think the picture quality has lost a little bit. Seemed it was better via direct connect.

Thanks,

Mike

Edit: I guess I could get an HDMI switcher, since the 3 units I speak of have HDMI out, then I can go from the switcher to DVI to my display.

 

[gmichael]

I would keep the 3805 and add an amp. Too many good ones to name them all. Adcom, Parasound, PS Audio, Pathos, Krell, and on and on.....

 

[billy p]

I too would recommend keeping the 3805 and adding more power! I however disagree that the picture is effected via component through the AVR, the 3805 acts like a pass through unit and no scaleing is required. Having said that, I myself use the direct route as well.

 

[agarwalro]

I got the same speaker set

Why do you feel the need for more power? How big is your listening area? Have you tried to get a FR plot at you main listening position? It is possible that you have some dips in the FR due to room response and because of them you have to pump the volume up.

I ask because the 3806 seems to be more than sufficient for me... the master volume needs to be around "-15.0" with channel trims between -1 to +2.5 to get 75dB on a SPL meter at the main listen position when playing pink noise. When watching DVD's the volume setting is at "-12.5" and I mostly listen to CDs in 2.1 mode at "-15.0", at times that too seems very loud (for the neighbours ).

 

[genesis471]

I too would recommend keeping the 3805 and adding more power! I however disagree that the picture is effected via component through the AVR, the 3805 acts like a pass through unit and no scaleing is required. Having said that, I myself use the direct route as well.

Hi Billy, regarding the component pass thru, it's just something I notice in the PQ. This morning I sent the signal from my HD directv box straight to the tv. Then back again thru the 3805. I notice a difference, a drop in pq. It very well could be the cables though. I have one high end set that I used to go direct. Then I connected them to component out on the 3805, and then from the DTV box to the component in I used a factory set that came with the DTV box. They are probably sh*t cables.
Anyway, I think I am going to get an HDMI switcher that will hopefully solve these issues I'm having.

Thanks!!

 

[genesis471]

I got the same speaker set

Why do you feel the need for more power? How big is your listening area? Have you tried to get a FR plot at you main listening position? It is possible that you have some dips in the FR due to room response and because of them you have to pump the volume up.

I think I had the idea that I need more power because I don't know any better. I think the FR is excellent in my room (room size is 12x18x8). I have a SPL meter and have done a lot of work. Have my subs on a Dehringer too.

I ask because the 3806 seems to be more than sufficient for me... the master volume needs to be around "-15.0" with channel trims between -1 to +2.5 to get 75dB on a SPL meter at the main listen position when playing pink noise. When watching DVD's the volume setting is at "-12.5" and I mostly listen to CDs in 2.1 mode at "-15.0", at times that too seems very loud (for the neighbours ).

Here's what I have, since you essentially have the same setup...(my 3805 is biamped as well zone 3 at -3db, no humming issues) okay, master volume is at "-36.5" with the channel trims between +2.5 and +4.0, that gets 75db on the SPL with pink noise. Listening to the Eagles Farewell 1 concert in 5.1 it is 75db @ "-22.0". Same concert @ "-10.0" starts to hurt! Damn clear though! I think my desired listening is around "-18db" roughly. Though I do like to demonstrate the system's power to friends, I do want to have some hearing left in the golden years!

I think just having this discussion has eased my idea on needing any upgrade and anything more then what I already have.
Thanks to all of you guys that gave me feedback, I think I have realized that this system is stellar in it's current form, and doesn't need anything more!

Mike

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Sound like you have plenty of power so just get a switcher if nessisary.

Enjoy,
SBF1

 

[genesis471]

Sound like you have plenty of power so just get a switcher if nessisary.

Enjoy,
SBF1

Exactly what I have done... just ordered a Belkin 3 to 1 HDMI switcher. $135 incl tax and shipping to my door... seems to have a good review from Cnet. We shall see.

Mike

 

[Geno]

I think I had the idea that I need more power because I don't know any better. I think the FR is excellent in my room (room size is 12x18x8). I have a SPL meter and have done a lot of work. Have my subs on a Dehringer too.



Here's what I have, since you essentially have the same setup...(my 3805 is biamped as well zone 3 at -3db, no humming issues) okay, master volume is at "-36.5" with the channel trims between +2.5 and +4.0, that gets 75db on the SPL with pink noise. Listening to the Eagles Farewell 1 concert in 5.1 it is 75db @ "-22.0". Same concert @ "-10.0" starts to hurt! Damn clear though! I think my desired listening is around "-18db" roughly. Though I do like to demonstrate the system's power to friends, I do want to have some hearing left in the golden years!
.
I think just having this discussion has eased my idea on needing any upgrade and anything more then what I already have.
Thanks to all of you guys that gave me feedback, I think I have realized that this system is stellar in it's current form, and doesn't need anything more!

Mike

IMHO, save yer money. I did a "neurosis" upgrade a few months ago from a 3805 to a 4306. If you remember the movie "Spaceballs", I went from "ridiculous loud" to "Ludicrous loud". Admittedly, the 4306 has a few nice features over the 3805, but sound quality isn't noticeably one of them. However, I kept my 3805/2910 combo, so I have an extra-tasty setup for my secondary system in the living room. Really makes my old Infinities come alive.

 

[PENG]

Exactly what I have done... just ordered a Belkin 3 to 1 HDMI switcher. $135 incl tax and shipping to my door... seems to have a good review from Cnet. We shall see.

Mike

I suggest you buy the HDMI cables from places that offer no question ask return policy. Obviously you have to keep everything (including the packaging stuff) in new condition. That way, if you do not notice improvement in PQ you can return the cables and get your money back.

I tried several HDMI, HDMI to DVI, component video cables during the past two weeks and eventually settled on component video cables. In my set up, none of the HDMI cables worked as good as even those long cheap component cables supplied by the cable company.

After this unexpected experience, I search the web for answers and found this informative site:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/index.htm

They sell cables, but they do tell you this:

"So, which is better, HDMI or component? The answer--unsatisfying, perhaps, but true--is that it depends." They also say there is no way to tell in advance.

I am glad I spent time comparing the results. Now I know I am getting the best PQ possible, using the 3805 to switch my DVD players/VCR and direct connection between the HD cable box and the LCD TV, all without the use of the more expensive HDMI/DVI cables. Quite likely your system can benefit from Digital, I just thought it is important to know that it "depends".

 

[genesis471]

Thank you Peng that is very informative! I am going to try a few different combonations and see what's best for PQ. I am going to buy some HDMI cables of course, as well as three decent sets of component. That gives me lots of options, ex. running the 3910, Dtv box, and HD-A2 thru the rec'r, and let the rec'r switch the signal. I will also of course try the HDMI route, but have to use a HDMI to DVI converter. Some say they work fine on Hitachi tv's, but of course the jury is still out I suppose.

I like options, and I shall have some! I will report back on how and what I used to get the best PQ for all three components, when I get all the goods!

Thanks Peng!

Mike

 

[genesis471]

IMHO, save yer money. I did a "neurosis" upgrade a few months ago from a 3805 to a 4306. If you remember the movie "Spaceballs", I went from "ridiculous loud" to "Ludicrous loud".

Exactly what I was thinking of doing, and exactly what the good people on this forum have talked me out of doing!

Thanks!

Mike

 

[eirepaul]

Exactly what I was thinking of doing, and exactly what the good people on this forum have talked me out of doing!

Thanks!

Mike

For me, audio capability takes greater precedence over video. I was finding that I was running out of juice with the 3805 alone in my system. Therefore, I added two used Adcom amps and it has been a very satisfying cost-effective upgrade for me. The 3805 is a fantastic processor, but the amps just could not provide me with enough power with all channels running. Now I have plenty in reserve, which is important to me as I listen to a lot of multi-channel music at pretty high levels.

The used amp market is very cost-effective and relatively safe, as it is hard to damage an amp, particularly a well-made amp with a stellar reputation. Something to consider if you feel you are sometimes straining the 3805.

 

[JayMan007]

Hi guys and gals, Merry X-mas to all!

Okay, question is, I am thinking of selling my Denon 3805 and replacing it with another Denon AVR (a step up or two). Reasons? I want to push my Axioms a bit more, and HDMI availability on the newer receviers is an important feature to me all of the sudden!
I just ordered a Toshiba HD-A2, and realize that TrueHD etc is only output via HDMI, and the unit has no analogue outs. No biggy though. I know I could of got an HD-A1 or XA1 at a great price, but went with the A2 anyways. I have been pondering the idea of selling the 3805 and moving up before the HD players were even out.
So, if I were to move up, what could be suggested from Denon that would be a quality and performance move?
I am going to hold on to my Denon 3910 because of it's outstanding aound qualities for DVD-A & SACD, not to mention, excellent PQ on standard def dvd's.

Thanks,

Mike

I would also suggest to look at adding external amps... I have an Adcom amp with a Denon AVR and it makes a great combo.

If you have the 3910 connected via the Denon link, you may want to look at getting the Toshiba HD-XA2 - it has the 5.1 analog outs like the A1 & XA1, and the benefit of a 2nd Gen player, plus more.

Any one looking for HDMI cables -or any other for that matter, check www.monoprice.com .

 

[genesis471]

I would also suggest to look at adding external amps... I have an Adcom amp with a Denon AVR and it makes a great combo.

If you have the 3910 connected via the Denon link, you may want to look at getting the Toshiba HD-XA2 - it has the 5.1 analog outs like the A1 & XA1, and the benefit of a 2nd Gen player, plus more.

Any one looking for HDMI cables -or any other for that matter, check www.monoprice.com .

Thanks! I think I have decided to keep what I have. I also have ordered the HD-A2 and I will live with optical out for now though it doesn't carry the TrueHD and DD+. I use my system primarily for music, but just getting into the movie thing lately, hence an HD-A2 on the way.

Mike

 

[Rob Babcock]

I think you'll be very pleased. The 3805 is a fine receiver, but more power is sometimes needed. I recently ordered a Butler TDB-3150 to go with my 3805.