TMH Tesseract speaker system - Any info?

[HyKlas]

Hello all, first post obviously. I'm more of a 2 channel stereo guy. Not an audiophile...


What brings me here is a pair (yes, only 2) of TMH Tesseract speakers that I stumbled upon the other day. Had no idea what they were but I knew the Dynaudio mids alone were worth the price of admission so here I am.

Of course nobody involved had a clue so the crossover didn't come with them. I'm trying to find anyone who might have some information on these. Tried reaching out to Visioneering Design, Ron Lagerof, and Tom Holman but have received no response.

Just shooting in the dark here. Thanks all!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Can you upload photos to photobucket and post link here?

 

[lovinthehd]

This post yours as well? http://electronics.forumsee.com/a/m/s/p12-61422-0642767--tmh-labs-tesseract.html

 

[HyKlas]

I do everything on mobile and Photobucket's interface is garbage. Don't have the patience for it...

Yes, that is also my thread.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I am pretty busy person and like to help others. I found information on some very rare speakers in the past, but I don't think i have the patience nor motivation in this case.

 

[zieglj01]

Is this you
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/speaker-id-dynaudio-drivers-solved.767261/

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/tmh-labs-tesseract.769046/

Find a DIY group that can help with crossovers -- and someone in your area

 

[HyKlas]

This should (hopefully) be a little more user friendly than Photobucket. Apologies, that site is as clunky now as it was in '95... Haven't had to externally link a photo in ages so here's to hoping this works.

And yes, those are my posts. Tricky getting anywhere with something like this. Small time company with a small sales history, catering mostly to the high end of the professional market. I know I can probably get close with a digital crossover but I'm hoping to locate some folks with first-hand experience. Pick some brains, get some background, the eternal quest for knowledge and all that.

 

[rojo]

This should (hopefully) be a little more user friendly than Photobucket. Apologies, that site is as clunky now as it was in '95... Haven't had to externally link a photo in ages so here's to hoping this works.

And yes, those are my posts. Tricky getting anywhere with something like this. Small time company with a small sales history, catering mostly to the high end of the professional market. I know I can probably get close with a digital crossover but I'm hoping to locate some folks with first-hand experience. Pick some brains, get some background, the eternal quest for knowledge and all that.

Just a hunch, but my guess is that horizontal lobing will be an issue with those speakers in their current orientation. I'd stack them vertically, woofers on the bottom, then tweeter side down and mids at the top -- assuming the height puts the tweeters at ear level in that orientation. From there, 6 channels of amplification and a Behringer DCX2496 to handle the crossovers. I couldn't tell you the appropriate crossover points, but if you've got a calibrated measurement mic and Room EQ Wizard you could measure low-volume sweeps at point blank range and figure out the breakup modes of the bass and mid drivers. Then set your crossovers so the breakup frequencies are attenuated -20dB (assuming the tweeter plays low enough to accommodate that config). After you set your crossover points, then do some sweeps with the mic at your primary listening position to level match the bass / mid / tweet channels. And finally, if you wish, one more set of sweeps to calculate the EQ needed for flat response at your chair.

For what it's worth, PostImage is much more user friendly for posting photos where you don't want to maintain an album or history of your uploads. If you prefer to maintain said history, Imgur is still easier to use than Photobucket.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello all, first post obviously. I'm more of a 2 channel stereo guy. Not an audiophile...


What brings me here is a pair (yes, only 2) of TMH Tesseract speakers that I stumbled upon the other day. Had no idea what they were but I knew the Dynaudio mids alone were worth the price of admission so here I am.

Of course nobody involved had a clue so the crossover didn't come with them. I'm trying to find anyone who might have some information on these. Tried reaching out to Visioneering Design, Ron Lagerof, and Tom Holman but have received no response.

Just shooting in the dark here. Thanks all!

How to you know they are Dynaudio drivers? Have you pulled them to see what they are? Dynaudio made a lot of drivers that look like that but they are all very different. Also they could be Morel, as they were previously Dynaudio people and a lot of their drivers had a pretty much identical external appearance. What is the horn unit?

Lastly, how to you know the crossovers are missing? Is there a hole were they went? These look like high powered speakers, and may never have had passive crossovers. They may have been fully active.

I know the Dynaudio drivers well, and used them extensively when they were available to the DIY market.

I need a lot more information before I could begin to help you.

 

[HyKlas]

The whole thing is supposed to be vertical, as shown in the link below, give or take for seat height of course. This link also displays the active analog crossover. The above photos are from the sale ad prior to me getting them.

http://www.platinumhometheaters.com/tesseract.html


Drivers per system:

2x TMH 12" woofers
2x Dynaudio 15w75
1x Electro Voice N/DYM1 (neo version DH1A)


Can assume we know specs on the EV and Dynaudio stuff. Would need to measure the custom TMH woofers, which is tipping me over the edge on the purchase of that OmniMic V2 / DATS V2 package from Dayton.

Woofers are wired in series and are 4Ω each, presenting an 8Ω load. The mids wired in parallel and are 8Ω each, presenting a 4Ω load. The compression drivers have 8Ω diaphrams.


Trying to secure a Dreadnaught with 5 high power channels to run the top boxes. Can pull out an old Macro Tech 1200 for the woofers. Being a 2ch single amp guy, this is a bit of a learning process but one I think might pay off in the end.

 

[TLS Guy]

The whole thing is supposed to be vertical, as shown in the link below, give or take for seat height of course. This link also displays the active analog crossover. The above photos are from the sale ad prior to me getting them.

http://www.platinumhometheaters.com/tesseract.html


Drivers per system:

2x TMH 12" woofers
2x Dynaudio 15w75
1x Electro Voice N/DYM1 (neo version DH1A)


Can assume we know specs on the EV and Dynaudio stuff. Would need to measure the custom TMH woofers, which is tipping me over the edge on the purchase of that OmniMic V2 / DATS V2 package from Dayton.

Woofers are wired in series and are 4Ω each, presenting an 8Ω load. The mids wired in parallel and are 8Ω each, presenting a 4Ω load. The compression drivers have 8Ω diaphrams.


Trying to secure a Dreadnaught with 5 high power channels to run the top boxes. Can pull out an old Macro Tech 1200 for the woofers. Being a 2ch single amp guy, this is a bit of a learning process but one I think might pay off in the end.

This speaker system absolutely needs to be active.

I would keep the bass to mid cross at 160 Hz, and cross to the tweeters at 2 KHz.

I would but 200 watts on each bass box, 200 watts on each mid system and 50 to 75 watts on the horns.

Do not use any passive crossovers. Since you will be well in the pass band of all crossovers, you can use second or fourth order active crossovers. I would have a preference for second order. The all you have to do is trim the levels.

The old bass mid cross was 160 Hz, and so you are at least an octave above the roll off of the Dynaudio drivers. You are 1000 Hz away from the roll off of the Dynaudios which have a smooth second order acoustic roll off. You are just over an octave above the horns roll off.

Once you select a three way active crossover this will not be difficult, as all of the drivers have smooth acoustic roll off, and with the crossovers I selected are all operating well within their pass bands.

With omni mic you will have no trouble setting the level of the three power bands. If the amps do not have volume controls you will need to add them.

 

[Pogre]

Hello all, first post obviously. I'm more of a 2 channel stereo guy. Not an audiophile...


What brings me here is a pair (yes, only 2) of TMH Tesseract speakers that I stumbled upon the other day. Had no idea what they were but I knew the Dynaudio mids alone were worth the price of admission so here I am.

Of course nobody involved had a clue so the crossover didn't come with them. I'm trying to find anyone who might have some information on these. Tried reaching out to Visioneering Design, Ron Lagerof, and Tom Holman but have received no response.

Just shooting in the dark here. Thanks all!

You don't have to own a crap ton of equipment to be an audiophile. There are lots of folks here who like to listen to music in stereo (me, for 1). The actual definition of audiophile is basically if you like really good hifi sound. That makes lots of folks audiophiles!

Listen to TLS, he knows what he's talking about. I followed your link the their site and it appears they are definitely meant to used with active crossovers. Some pretty impressive looking speakers.

 

[HyKlas]

Ron got back with me and the tweeter cross point is exactly as you mentioned TLS, 2kHz. Who woulda thunk it?

He also recommended running a BSS BLU unit and the Smaart analyzer software but that's a bit above budget, yikes! A bit overkill it seems as well.

May end up going with that previously mentioned DCX2496. Appears simple enough to use and looks to do what's needed. Will need to research it a bit though, hoping it has time alignment due to the compression driver / mid relationship.

Suppose with everything that's been laid out here, I'll just need to EQ for the little stuff. No big deal there either.


Pogre, everyone's definition of audiophile differs slightly. I prefer to say I'm a music addict, I'll take it any way I can get it. If all I have is the speaker on my phone, so be it, let the music play...

 

[TLS Guy]

Ron got back with me and the tweeter cross point is exactly as you mentioned TLS, 2kHz. Who woulda thunk it?

Well it wasn't divine inspiration!

When you know those drivers, it is pretty obvious where the crossover has to be.

Now I will extend my remarks a little. First the Dynaudio drivers are rolling off second order above 2 KHz. So the upper end of the band pass crossover should roll of second order LR at 2 KHz. This will give a composite fourth order roll off. The high pass filter to the Electrovoice horn should be fourth order LR electrical.

Now we have to look at the issue of baffle step compensation. This will depend on the width of the baffle. Can you post that? I think we can take care of that staggering the crossover points. The lower end of the band pass should roll off second order LR at 160 Hz. The low pass bass units I suspect somewhat higher depending on the baffle width. I have a feeling this will take care of the BSC adequately without having to design and build a custom crossover.

I think you already realize you are likely to get a first class speaker system out of this if you go about it the right way.

 

[HyKlas]

As a side note, I've secured the Dreadnaught. This may work out great as a single box system if I can get my hands on a 2x100w module to replace one of the 1x200w units.


Top cab baffle: 30.5cm
Woofer cab: 45.5cm x 74.5cm

There is a small round-over on the edge but not enough to make an acoustic difference. When I strip them down for repaint, I may take a router and lob a touch more off for good measure. Shouldn't be an issue with the 1.5" thick front motor board.


I see where you went and how you came up with the points, as well as why you chose the LR design. No issues there. I know just enough to be dangerous, as they say. Just not enough to work these things out on my own generally. And I thank you for that...

 

[TLS Guy]

As a side note, I've secured the Dreadnaught. This may work out great as a single box system if I can get my hands on a 2x100w module to replace one of the 1x200w units.


Top cab baffle: 30.5cm
Woofer cab: 45.5cm x 74.5cm

There is a small round-over on the edge but not enough to make an acoustic difference. When I strip them down for repaint, I may take a router and lob a touch more off for good measure. Shouldn't be an issue with the 1.5" thick front motor board.


I see where you went and how you came up with the points, as well as why you chose the LR design. No issues there. I know just enough to be dangerous, as they say. Just not enough to work these things out on my own generally. And I thank you for that...

Then you should raise the low pass crossover on he bass drivers to 350 to 380 Hz. Leave the low end of the band pass to the Dynaudios at 160. That should take care of the BSC, but you will need to be guided by measurement to get it optimal. Room position will also have an impact. The calculation as to where BSC should be applied is below 380 Hz.

 

[HyKlas]

Great. I'll do a bit of research so I can wrap my head around baffle step compensation and how you've come up with the numbers. Thanks again TLS, much appreciated.


For now, there's a few issues that need to be sorted on the Dread so this is on ice for a bit.