Time to downgrade Onkyo receivers to Junk status?

[TLS Guy]

Problems with Onkyo receivers seem to be cropping up here and all over the NET.

It seems that HDMI problems are frequent and serious.

If you Google Onkyo HDMI board problems the page really lights up. Also they get a failing grade for customer service.

Worse there are serious design flaws in the current Onkyo range.

They get too hot.

It seems service is only a temporary solution and extensive DIY is required for a more permanent solution.

The basic problem stems it seems, from a very poorly thought out board layout leading to poor internal air circulation.

The basic problem stems it seems, from a very poorly thought out board layout leading to poor internal air circulation.

It seems you have to replace a bunch of 100 mfd electrolytic caps with larger ones rated to 105 degrees.

Other component changes may be required and installation of fans is apparently mandatory.

This is too much to expect from the average consumer, and Onkyo receivers need to be downgraded to junk category. They should not be recommended on these forums. In fact they should have an avoid designation.

 

[lsiberian]

The issues I've heard are a problem if you don't have an open rack. I would not recommend Onkyo's unless you have a large ventilation for them. Once I heard the issues I sold mine and went to the HK. I've had zero issues reliability wise with it.

 

[TLS Guy]

The issues I've heard are a problem if you don't have an open rack. I would not recommend Onkyo's unless you have a large ventilation for them. Once I heard the issues I sold mine and went to the HK. I've had zero issues reliability wise with it.

I think the problem is now beyond that. Even if what you say is correct, it still shows poor design with no margin. I would say even under your conditions, reduced life is to be expected.

 

[highfigh]

I have been hearing that the heat issue is less of a problem than it was and the reliability is better than it was about two years ago. OTOH, this was from my reps, but they also said some dealers have switched form Denon to Onkyo.

Maybe the majority stake, now held by Gibson (maker of guitars and other instruments) will cause some changes.

 

[lsiberian]

I think the problem is now beyond that. Even if what you say is correct, it still shows poor design with no margin. I would say even under your conditions, reduced life is to be expected.

The problem TLS is we aren't evaluating the other brands with it. I suspect poor design runs rampant in these budget receiver lines around the entry of HDMI repeating. Considering the cost per unit and the feature requirements of the marketing department I'm not surprised we got a rushed product. But HDMIs introduction caused major headaches for nearly every brand of receiver. My Xbox is the definition of poor ventilation though.

 

[MDS]

I've never had a single problem with any Onkyo receiver I've owned, although I haven't bought a new one in a long time. Maybe they are currently producing junk but things have a way of changing very quickly.

Every manufacturer seems to have a period where their current line up has a lot of problems and generates a lot of complaints - and then they fix it.

This too shall pass...

 

[TLS Guy]

The problem TLS is we aren't evaluating the other brands with it. I suspect poor design runs rampant in these budget receiver lines around the entry of HDMI repeating. Considering the cost per unit and the feature requirements of the marketing department I'm not surprised we got a rushed product. But HDMIs introduction caused major headaches for nearly every brand of receiver. My Xbox is the definition of poor ventilation though.

You likely are on target with these comments.

I guess in reviews, running the receivers with temperature probes at critical point under conditions of normal use would provide useful information.

However it seems clear that Onkyo receivers are running hotter than the competition and that is a very big strike against them. There is just no way that that can not have an adverse effect on reliability and longevity. This will be especially true for equipment run at high altitudes like Denver.

 

[psbfan9]

Onkyo 608

I have an Onkyo TX SR608 and it's performed well for me. Yes, it gets hot. This particular model does have fans and I knew Onkyo receivers had a reputation for getting hot so I adjusted where I put it in my cabinet.
I have had this receiver for two years or going on two years, and it has performed flawlessly.
Customer service is the worst.

Look at reviews from users of higher end Denon models like the 4311C or what ever it is. The reviews from actual users are rate these pretty low. Sherwood now makes receivers for Denon. How many of you would own a Sherwood/Sherwood Newcastle receiver? I'm betting not many, if any.

There seems to be a rampant problem with all receivers build quality lately. The thing in common? Made in China...I would also bet that 90% of receivers are made at the same factory, no matter brand.

I'm not an Onkyo fanboy that thinks my receiver is best. Based on my experience with this model though, I would have no problem recommending the 608.

 

[sholling]

The internet echo chamber school of posting? I would think that with 4 Onkyos in the house I'd have noticed by now if the they were "junk" but perhaps I was born under a lucky star and got the only 4 good ones that they've ever produced. It's true that they do need plenty of ventilation but that was addressed with fans in the latest models - I'm sure they're still "junk" though and all 4 of mine will melt down any minute - the internet said so.

 

[M Code]

Onkyo AVRs are biased on the high side to minimize x-over distortion, so they do run hotter even @ idle.. In our install biz we have found the majority of complaints toward Onkyo & heat is that the user does not provide enough free-air clearance. There should be at least 3' for the L/R sides and top cover, also no component should be put on its top cover..

Just my $0.02..

 

[avliner]

Never had Onkyos before, but I have several friends owning them and - matter of fact - they run pretty darn hot, no doubt about it and I'd dare to say, much more than other brands though.

 

[Crackerballer]

Never had Onkyos before, but I have several friends owning them and - matter of fact - they run pretty darn hot, no doubt about it and I'd dare to say, much more than other brands though.

Does that matter if they don't break down or shorten the life of the components? No, not at all. I know some will argue it *has* to shorten the life since heat is the biggest killer of electronics, but I tend to take the internet with a grain of salt. For every 1 user that comes on the web to complain, there are probably 3-4 on and off the web that have no problems. Not to mention the people who improperly run the components or don't properly ventilate it.

 

[lsiberian]

You likely are on target with these comments.

I guess in reviews, running the receivers with temperature probes at critical point under conditions of normal use would provide useful information.

However it seems clear that Onkyo receivers are running hotter than the competition and that is a very big strike against them. There is just no way that that can not have an adverse effect on reliability and longevity. This will be especially true for equipment run at high altitudes like Denver.

The problem is there is more to the equation than just heat. The software quality in my HK receiver made around the same time is much worse than the Onkyo *06s. Setup is much easier with Onkyo's than HKs. They also tend to offer a higher quality Auddysey the 706 had the top version available in receivers. The HDMI handling was superior to the HK too. The only knock is the heat. I'm not sure we can say which ones would last longer in real world testing, but some things are worth the cost of sooner replacement. Engineering is about tradeoffs and given the cost you got lesser board for more features.

I have had zero issues with Onkyo receivers and I advised a friend to purchase one very recently. We need to remember the problem of heat has recently become much worse than it was back in the early days. All electronics need ventilation.

 

[slipperybidness]

I don't see heat as being a huge issue. As stated, be sure to give it plenty of breathing room, and as long as it doesn't get so hot that your reflexes make you move your hand from its surface, then let er rip.

And yes, if you want to talk about the worst of the worst, it was the 1st generation XBOX360, hands down.

But, how is the quality of the Integra line? I haven't been seeing the same complaints, so it may be back to the budget recievers with so many features for such a small price as being the root of the issue.

 

[whitey019]

Onkyo AVRs are biased on the high side to minimize x-over distortion, so they do run hotter even @ idle.. In our install biz we have found the majority of complaints toward Onkyo & heat is that the user does not provide enough free-air clearance. There should be at least 3' for the L/R sides and top cover, also no component should be put on its top cover..

Just my $0.02..

I know you meant 3" and not 3'............funny though!

 

[walter duque]

I purchased top of line Onkyo AVR 13+ years ago and gave it to my cousin and it still works great. Onkyo only makes their top of line AVR's lower models are farmed out to East Tech. They might say Onkyo but they're not made by Onkyo. They're just rebadged what ever they are? And as far as running hot, I would'nt buy an amp that doesn't run hot, at least I know that there is some major current running trough it. On my Cinepro you can cook a steak on the heat fins.

 

[rnatalli]

The x09 line runs much cooler, even more so than many competitors, and have been reliable so far in my experience especially compared to the last few years.

A few years back, someone posted a link to one of the magazines who include bench tests with their reviews and they found Onkyo receivers had better preamp specs than many high-priced pre/pros. Onkyo receivers also have great amp sections which do well in the power department. Junk, I think not; a few bad years, sure, but everyone has their ups and downs.

 

[TLS Guy]

Does that matter if they don't break down or shorten the life of the components? No, not at all. I know some will argue it *has* to shorten the life since heat is the biggest killer of electronics, but I tend to take the internet with a grain of salt. For every 1 user that comes on the web to complain, there are probably 3-4 on and off the web that have no problems. Not to mention the people who improperly run the components or don't properly ventilate it.

Yes, but running hot will shorten the life of the components, shorten life and decrease reliability.

All semiconductor devices have a life temp. curve. It is in the spec. of all devices. The curves are never linear, with failures increasing to the log of the operating temperature. So running hot in and of itself is a big negative in any piece of electronic equipment.

The poster Cz_the_day on AVS forums, is obviously experienced in electronics circuits.

He has documented having to change caps in these receivers from from 85 C degree max operating temperature to 105 C to avoid failure. As he points out that is hotter then boiling water.

He has documented failure of the IC controlling the HDMI switching due to temperature, which probably explains the high incidence of HDMI board failures in these units.

Now there are concerns about the failure of Denon units. Now I can't get an accurate assessment of market share, but there are a lot more reports about heat and especially HDMI board failure in Onkyo units than problems with other receivers on the NET.

I looked into this as I have fielded an increase in requests for help with HDMI connection problems, which the posters believe to be due to settings errors, unfortunately most of these seem to involve HDMI board failure. The last of these posts was in the previous 24 hours, from a unit two months old. Onkyo units have been disproportionally involved. This last caused me to investigate further.

So I think there is a problem with the current crop of Onkyo receivers. Certainly I'm inclined to steer people away from them for the time being.

Of course the wider issue is that the whole concept of the receiver is fundamentally flawed, which is a part of the problem. With ever increasing complexity and need for ever more feature and more powerful processing it becomes an increasingly flawed idea.

Pioneers decision to use class D amps, which generate less heat by orders of magnitude than conventional amps, may well have merit. However the downside is that the performance of class D amps, but not necessarily reliability can be degraded by speakers with wide swings of impedance and difficult phase angles.

I have said this before, but the industry needs to regroup and put power amps in the speakers with active crossovers. I believe with economy of scale, there would be cost savings and a marked increase in performance and much better performance per dollar.

In my view the receiver becomes a less and less viable option every year.

 

[jcl]

I have an onkyo ht rc180, sister to the 807, and it did get very hot. Even in an open shelving unit, with 6" of clear space above it. Even when I had pulled it out and placed it on the floor in front of the rack with nothing around it, it got hot. Even without playing any signal it got hot. Hot to the point where you wouldn't want to rest your hand on it.

I changed the speaker impedance setting to the lower ohm setting and it has run only slightly warm ever since. I know this is not recommended as it significantly reduces the available power. However I have fairly efficient speakers and don't listen at loud levels, and had offloaded some of the amplification duties.

 

[lsiberian]

I have said this before, but the industry needs to regroup and put power amps in the speakers with active crossovers. I believe with economy of scale, there would be cost savings and a marked increase in performance and much better performance per dollar.

In my view the receiver becomes a less and less viable option every year.

I certainly agree. If I do ever start a speaker company they will be active speakers for this reason, but this doesn't address the issues IMO. The problem is an issue easily addressed with a 20 dollar fan. Heck you can get a water cooling system for around 50 dollars now. There is no excuse for this in a receiver, but cost drives companies to the line of acceptable.