Timbre Consistency over the years

[Quickley17]

I've read a lot of posts here that stress the importance of having a center channel that matches your fronts for the best possible viewing experience with movies, but I haven't seen anything (maybe I didn't look hard enough) that addressed how brands vary with their voice matching over time.

Do most brands maintain characteristics of voice matching from their old models when they design new speakers?

As an example, I have a pair of Rti4's from Polk that I purchased in early 2004. I would like to upgrade and I am currently looking at the RTiA series. I'm not sure I have the budget to get a new center and fronts at the same time, but if I got a center now, and a set of fronts in 1-2 years, can I be reasonably assured that within a similar product line from the same manufacturer, the voice charateristics will not change drastically? Is this a question to directly ask a speaker manufacturer? Thanks for your help.

 

[mperfct]

Excellent question. I'll take a semi-educated guess on it, but I bet that someone far smarter than me will chime in too.

I wouldn't think a speaker would change that much over time. Your crossovers wouldn't change, and your driver may make a small change in the beginning (and that's debatable), so I would think buying a new speaker shouldn't differ that much unless the driver/crossovers are different. That question would best be fielded by someone at Polk, but I would think they would not be markedly different.

 

[Swerd]

I've read a lot of posts here that stress the importance of having a center channel that matches your fronts for the best possible viewing experience with movies, but I haven't seen anything (maybe I didn't look hard enough) that addressed how brands vary with their voice matching over time.

Do most brands maintain characteristics of voice matching from their old models when they design new speakers?

As an example, I have a pair of Rti4's from Polk that I purchased in early 2004. I would like to upgrade and I am currently looking at the RTiA series. I'm not sure I have the budget to get a new center and fronts at the same time, but if I got a center now, and a set of fronts in 1-2 years, can I be reasonably assured that within a similar product line from the same manufacturer, the voice characteristics will not change drastically? Is this a question to directly ask a speaker manufacturer? Thanks for your help.

That's a very good question. I'm afraid the answer varies with the manufacturer and model. Polk is a very large manufacturer, and the various drivers they use in their numerous models may or may not change significantly over time. I don't think a general answer to your question will be very useful. Some smaller companies try to maintain an identifiable sound to the various speaker models they've produced, but probably many others can't.

Most people advise choosing center and main speakers from the same model line to get similar voicing. That is an easy way to get similar voicing, but it isn't the only way. There are quite a few people that, like you, buy their center speaker at different time from the main speakers. Look for speakers with similar size woofers and a similar crossover point to the tweeter. If your main speakers have 6.5" woofers and crossover to the tweeter at 2200 Hz, find a center speaker with something similar.

That may get you close, but it is no guarantee of similar sounding speakers. Listen to your existing speakers and compare them to your choices before you buy. Use recordings with a single voice (try both male and female voices), or use quieter music with a single unamplified instrument. It will pretty easy to identify those speakers that are a poor match, and that way you can narrow down your choices.

Welcome to Audioholics! I'm also in the general DC area, Gaithersburg, MD.

 

[djreef]

This could be a problem, as large manufacturers also update and improve existing models on the fly, as said improvements in materials and design present themselves. You could end up with a speaker which sounds more accurate, but different a couple of years out. Having said this, the differences are likely to be minor, but still different nonetheless.

DJ

 

[lsiberian]

I've read a lot of posts here that stress the importance of having a center channel that matches your fronts for the best possible viewing experience with movies, but I haven't seen anything (maybe I didn't look hard enough) that addressed how brands vary with their voice matching over time.

Do most brands maintain characteristics of voice matching from their old models when they design new speakers?

As an example, I have a pair of Rti4's from Polk that I purchased in early 2004. I would like to upgrade and I am currently looking at the RTiA series. I'm not sure I have the budget to get a new center and fronts at the same time, but if I got a center now, and a set of fronts in 1-2 years, can I be reasonably assured that within a similar product line from the same manufacturer, the voice charateristics will not change drastically? Is this a question to directly ask a speaker manufacturer? Thanks for your help.

Every person's ears differs. This is what makes it hard to determine. For some a different center sounds no different. For others they need the same exact speaker or they will go crazy.

In general I suggest the following approach to matching a center to your LR channels.

1.Same speaker

2. If towers a bookshelf from the same model series.

3. same series center channel

4. matching tweeters types.

5. matching company.

6. Do the best you can. As always it's your ears and no one elses. However most folks don't do critical listening via the center channel. In that case it's not as important.

 

[j_garcia]

The current models do not sound like the older ones, though I would not say they would be too far off in terms of overall timbre. Though some manufacturers may keep them similar in timbre, after so many years things are definitely going to change to some extent. Your best bet, IMO, would be to buy a new front stage and use the current ones as surrounds. Unless you listen to a lot of multichannel music, perfectly matching the rear stage to the front is less critical.

 

[Pyrrho]

I've read a lot of posts here that stress the importance of having a center channel that matches your fronts for the best possible viewing experience with movies, but I haven't seen anything (maybe I didn't look hard enough) that addressed how brands vary with their voice matching over time.

Do most brands maintain characteristics of voice matching from their old models when they design new speakers?

As an example, I have a pair of Rti4's from Polk that I purchased in early 2004. I would like to upgrade and I am currently looking at the RTiA series. I'm not sure I have the budget to get a new center and fronts at the same time, but if I got a center now, and a set of fronts in 1-2 years, can I be reasonably assured that within a similar product line from the same manufacturer, the voice charateristics will not change drastically? Is this a question to directly ask a speaker manufacturer? Thanks for your help.

Since you cannot be certain of the future, it is always a good idea to buy the front three speakers at the same time. If a company comes out with new speakers, they should sound different, or what is the point in the new model? It may, of course, be close enough to make someone happy, but unless the manufacturer is coming out with a new model for reasons other than sound, it should sound different.

I recommend that you wait until you can afford three new speakers, and then use the Polk speakers you have for the rear channels. If you don't want to wait, I would look at used speakers from Polk that do match. You might even be able to find a single Rti4 for sale cheap, because most people want a pair. Or, you can buy a pair of them, and use one for the center channel, and save the other one for a spare.

Like lsiberian, I recommend, if possible, not merely a "voice matched" center speaker, but one that is identical to the front right and left speakers. That is what I do, and I have them all vertical, so their sound is as perfectly matched as possible.

 

[Quickley17]

Pyrrho and Isiberian, you are both echoing what I have heard in the past with regard to an identical speaker. I am not dead-set on Polk, I am young and they are merely what I am most familiar with (dad and brother both swore by them until my brother found B&W). One nice thing about Polk is for the RTiA series (I'm leaning towards the 7 but i've only heard the 5 and 9) it is easy to get a single tower. How easy is it to find other brands such as B&W (684 is a similar price point and I enjoyed that speaker), Klipsh (WF-35?? I liked as well for its clarity, although I didn't think it was capable of the lows the others were), etc. that offer a single tower?

As far as installation of a center tower goes, I would either need to mount my TV or if I had a projector, I would need to make sure the screen allowed sound through properly?

 

[lsiberian]

Pyrrho and Isiberian, you are both echoing what I have heard in the past with regard to an identical speaker. I am not dead-set on Polk, I am young and they are merely what I am most familiar with (dad and brother both swore by them until my brother found B&W). One nice thing about Polk is for the RTiA series (I'm leaning towards the 7 but i've only heard the 5 and 9) it is easy to get a single tower. How easy is it to find other brands such as B&W (684 is a similar price point and I enjoyed that speaker), Klipsh (WF-35?? I liked as well for its clarity, although I didn't think it was capable of the lows the others were), etc. that offer a single tower?

As far as installation of a center tower goes, I would either need to mount my TV or if I had a projector, I would need to make sure the screen allowed sound through properly?

You can get a bookshelf for the center from the same series. This would be easier to deal with than a tower.

A PJ setup is a lot of work and I personally am not a fan of the AT screens. I'll compromise sound before picture. Picture is what makes the most impact for me.

 

[Pyrrho]

Pyrrho and Isiberian, you are both echoing what I have heard in the past with regard to an identical speaker. I am not dead-set on Polk, I am young and they are merely what I am most familiar with (dad and brother both swore by them until my brother found B&W). One nice thing about Polk is for the RTiA series (I'm leaning towards the 7 but i've only heard the 5 and 9) it is easy to get a single tower. How easy is it to find other brands such as B&W (684 is a similar price point and I enjoyed that speaker), Klipsh (WF-35?? I liked as well for its clarity, although I didn't think it was capable of the lows the others were), etc. that offer a single tower?

As far as installation of a center tower goes, I would either need to mount my TV or if I had a projector, I would need to make sure the screen allowed sound through properly?

You should make sure your TV is at the right height for proper viewing. Most likely, this means that you do not want a tower speaker for the center, unless you did have a front projector with an acoustically transparent screen. In any case, to perfectly match the speakers you now have, you would want a single Polk Rti4 for center channel use. Polk recommended the CSi3 center channel speaker:

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/recent/rti4/

I would not buy a tower speaker for the center channel when using bookshelf speakers for the front right and left. I would only consider a center tower speaker if my front right and left speakers were identical tower speakers and I had sufficient room for the tower speaker without making my screen too high.

As far as Polk versus other brands, I have not listened to any of the new Polk speakers, but I liked some of their low end bookshelf speakers in the past for their price point. I recommend, if you are considering buying new speakers for the front, that you go out and audition as many speakers as you can stand to audition before you make up your mind. But if you want to use your current Polk Rti4 speakers for the front right and left, I would buy a Polk speaker to use for the center channel that is supposed to match the Rti4. If possible, I would use a Polk Rti4 speaker for the center. My second choice would be a Polk CSi3, which is what Polk recommends. My third choice would be to contact Polk and ask them what they would recommend to go with them, which I would guess to be the CSi A4 for the model made for the center, or RTi A1 for the bookshelf model. But I would probably not go that way, and would either get an older model that exactly matched, or I would buy three new speakers that match for the front channels.

 

[Quickley17]

It sounds like to do this "right" or most efficiently (within the ultimate goal of having a complete home theater setup), I should save up for the time when I can get all three front speakers at once. The plus side of this is if I have a plan, I can fill the time listening to as many different options as possible.

 

[fredk]

I wonder if this varies by manufacturer? The topic has come up on the Axiom forums and the answer was that the speakers voicing has remained constant over time. Changes in their speakers have been to smooth out the frequency response and most of that is tweeking the crossover. No drastic changes.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Usually, getting a center speaker from the same brand as your two front mains, as well for your surrounds, is a very good idea.

But don't forget that as much you try to match them, each speaker is located at a different position in your room, and they will always sound a bit different from each other; unless your room is heavily treated.

For the center speaker, a tweeter on top of the centered midrange is always better for preventing the combing effects.

Speakers always work with the room and all the furniture in it. They will be effected by it.

At the very least, choose a center speaker that have the same size drivers as your two front mains (eg. 6.5" mid/woof and 1" tweeter from your two front mains should be those same driver's sizes from your center speaker).

Bob

 

[Quickley17]

OK, this is probably a pretty subjective question, but lets say I get a pair of RTiA 7's (from Polk) for my L and R channels. What type of potential difference could I expect between spending the 450 USD on the CSi 6 and the 550 USD on a third RTiA 7 for the center? Polk says the CSi speaker is voice matched, intuition and the help of everyone on the forum tells me that the RtiA 7 is also a viable alternative. So, assuming I have the vertical latitude for my tv to fit a tower in the center, is 22% increase in price worth it to get an identical speaker versus a speaker that is simply "similar"?? I'm having a hard time wording this question, I hope some of you will understand what I am asking.

 

[Pyrrho]

OK, this is probably a pretty subjective question, but lets say I get a pair of RTiA 7's (from Polk) for my L and R channels. What type of potential difference could I expect between spending the 450 USD on the CSi 6 and the 550 USD on a third RTiA 7 for the center? Polk says the CSi speaker is voice matched, intuition and the help of everyone on the forum tells me that the RtiA 7 is also a viable alternative. So, assuming I have the vertical latitude for my tv to fit a tower in the center, is 22% increase in price worth it to get an identical speaker versus a speaker that is simply "similar"?? I'm having a hard time wording this question, I hope some of you will understand what I am asking.

It is a very subjective question. With identical speakers, the sound will be identical, except for placement effects. With a nearly identical speaker, the sound will be nearly identical, except for placement effects.

Given that the RTi A7 is 42 1/4" tall, this means that the bottom of your TV will be at least 42 1/4" off the floor (unless you are using a front projector with an acoustically transparent screen; if you are doing that, I would buy the identical tower speaker for the center, if I were going to use tower speakers for the front right and left speakers). The bottom of the screen will be somewhat higher; how much higher depends upon how much your TV extends below the screen. To complicate matters further, how bad that would be will depend upon how tall your seating is (really, how tall you are seated there), and how far away you are from your screen. But without going into all of that, unless you are talking about a very large screen, far away, that would be higher than I would like, so I don't think I would choose the tower speaker for the center channel. From a sound point of view, it would be ideal to perfectly match, but I would not mount the TV too high in order to achieve perfect matching when very good matching will not cause that problem. If you are thinking that is not too high for the TV, try it out before you buy anything, and see how you feel about having the TV high enough to be over a 42 1/4" speaker. If you think it is okay, watch a couple of entire movies that way to make sure, because you really don't want to buy a speaker and then later decide you cannot deal with what it requires of your TV placement. I am fairly sure that I would not like my TV up that high.

 

[Lordoftherings]

OK, this is probably a pretty subjective question, but lets say I get a pair of RTiA 7's (from Polk) for my L and R channels. What type of potential difference could I expect between spending the 450 USD on the CSi 6 and the 550 USD on a third RTiA 7 for the center? Polk says the CSi speaker is voice matched, intuition and the help of everyone on the forum tells me that the RtiA 7 is also a viable alternative. So, assuming I have the vertical latitude for my tv to fit a tower in the center, is 22% increase in price worth it to get an identical speaker versus a speaker that is simply "similar"?? I'm having a hard time wording this question, I hope some of you will understand what I am asking.

Me, I'll go with the center speaker, the CSi 6. Easy to set up, great sounding speaker that will match the timbre of your two RTiA 7 towers.
This is an easy and simple choice.

Don't sweat it, that's a great matching trio.

Cheers,

Bob