thoughts on buying used

[big O]

or as they say in the car business "pre-owned"

i buy used now and i find i can get much value for my money this way but i wanted to know what the conventional wisdom is,as i see hardly any recommendations to try used.

preamps without hdmi that sold 15 years ago for $3000 now sell for $150
very good two channel amps can be bought for $50-300

in my area,dallas tx, one would be hard pressed to get half the new price for a set of speakers.

i bought a perfect condition paradigm pw2200 12" sub off craigslist for $200.

so, whats the good word on buying used?

 

[rojo]

You hardly see recommendations to buy used because we don't often know where to search for used gear to recommend. Sure, Craigslist, but which city? People asking are often vague about where they are located, to their own detriment.

I love used gear, and love recommending it if I see a worthwhile match. I found a folded horn sub on craigslist for a guy a week or two ago, in fact. That was lucky, as he was trying to pressurize 6600 cubic feet for less than a grand. Achievement unlocked: cheapskate.

Nice Paradigm sub, by the way. I've got one just like it. Mine was also $200 from craigslist.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

This one seems like good deal : https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/ele/5054732292.html

 

[big O]

great to see another member of the same mind,rojo.

i guess that explains the lack of used recommendations . we dont know where people are? and maybe not everyone is in a metropolitan area. still, i wish more people knew about the deals out there. everyone has a receiver nowadays so separates are an absolute bargain.

example i saw a sherwood avp 9080r on ebay, that Didnt sell for $75, even though it was 1200 brand new and is generally regarded as having amazing sound quality.

 

[big O]

This one seems like good deal : https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/ele/5054732292.html

and he's had it listed a month no ones bought it. kinda goes to what im saying -used audio gear can be depressingly devalued - but a good thing for buyers.

 

[Steve81]

so, whats the good word on buying used?

I've bought a fair amount of used equipment (my old Klipsch rig was all used). Obviously make sure the stuff works as advertised and that there's no cosmetic issues not mentioned in the ad. Beyond that, going pre-owned is a great way to get gear at a significant discount.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

and he's had it listed a month no ones bought it. kinda goes to what im saying -used audio gear can be depressingly devalued - but a good thing for buyers.

Not always, most of the "deals" I found where grossly overpriced or just crap.
One case in point - $2000 for old 4k lumens XGA (1024x768) Onkyo projector and cheap 82" screen. Hardly bargain of the century.

I also assume most of dallas buyer not familiar with HSU brand like folks on this forum.

 

[big O]

I've bought a fair amount of used equipment (my old Klipsch rig was all used). Obviously make sure the stuff works as advertised and that there's no cosmetic issues not mentioned in the ad. Beyond that, going pre-owned is a great way to get gear at a significant discount.

well said, ive also found that local used sellers will let you demo the item in their room - better than listening in a loud best-buy etc.

 

[big O]

I also assume most of dallas buyer not familiar with HSU brand like folks on this forum.

I cant really speak to that. but I know dallas has a fairly savvy audio crowd

 

[highfigh]

Selling used equipment can be depressing when the seller can't get the price they want, but some pieces are selling fro stupid money, even though they were nothing special when they were new. Audio Karma is one reason- some of those people are absolutely in love with stuff that was mediocre, at best and sometimes, it was crap. A Pioneer isn't worth >$1000, but that's what they're selling for. A Teac cassette deck isn't worth more than $50, but I have seen some going for hundreds. I never liked those Tascam is a different story, though.

If you like what you find and don't have a problem with the price, consider it. It's a good idea to do some research about whatever you're considering, too. Things like, "Can I still find output transistors for this after 30-45 years?", "I found output transistors, but they're really expensive", "Does it need proprietary parts?", "Where can I find a second replacement tweeter? or "I need a special part for this open reel machine" can be a problem, after the sale. As an example, if you decide to buy a turntable and happen to like the sleek styling of Bang & Olafsen, don't expect to find a new old stock cartridge for it. They stopped making those decades ago and the ones that are available are very expensive. Some of the cartridge models are being rebuilt by Soundsmith in NY, but they're still not cheap.

 

[big O]

If you like what you find and don't have a problem with the price, consider it. It's a good idea to do some research about whatever you're considering, too. Things like, "Can I still find output transistors for this after 30-45 years?", "I found output transistors, but they're really expensive", "Does it need proprietary parts?", "Where can I find a second replacement tweeter? or "I need a special part for this open reel machine" can be a problem, after the sale. As an example, if you decide to buy a turntable and happen to like the sleek styling of Bang & Olafsen, don't expect to find a new old stock cartridge for it. They stopped making those decades ago and the ones that are available are very expensive. Some of the cartridge models are being rebuilt by Soundsmith in NY, but they're still not cheap.

good points

 

[Johnny2Bad]

I personnaly hate the phrase "pre-owned". If a seller is afraid to call something "used", they can't be trusted to give a true account of condition.

Most of my gear purchases are via the used market.

Simply buying used without other criteria isn't a good strategy with the exception that it's a good start to get a system up where you had nohing before. Pay no more than 20% of MSRP for known working units.

My advantage is product knowledge going back to the 1970's. That makes it easier to spot true bargains.

You see on eBay, for example, people paying $100 for a $200 FM Tuner while there are $600 tuners available for $50 that same week. Better still, you see over-performing gear for sale beside under-performing gear at similar prices. But you need to know which is which.

Take 30% off because you will have to eat repair costs. After you've bought a few used pieces, you have saved enough to be able to afford to lose the entire price and still be dollars ahead over new. From that point on you can buy used as much as you want.

I see incredible bargains every week as well as the opposite where people overpay for ordinary or even substandard gear.

There are a few areas where buying new makes sense ... Speakers in particular. But the best advice is jump in because the savings can't start unless you take the used plunge first.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

There will always be people afraid to buy without the Safety Net of a warranty. Some of these same people buy extended warranties.

The way to get value is via a purchasing strategy.

A little nervous something might break? Buy new all the time.

Willing to look at the big picture and understand you will have to pay out-of-pocket for repairs? You are a perfect candidate for used gear purchases.

Once you've saved a bit that way, you now have effectively built up a "war chest" of money you did not have to shell out, making even a used "bust buy" OK since even less the mistake you are dollars to the good.

Finally, if uou are buying at the right price, you can sell at no or minimal loss, or even a profit, when upgrade time comes along.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Selling used equipment can be depressing when the seller can't get the price they want, but some pieces are selling fro stupid money, even though they were nothing special when they were new.

...

A Teac cassette deck isn't worth more than $50, but I have seen some going for hundreds. I never liked those Tascam is a different story though.

...

if you decide to buy a turntable and happen to like the sleek styling of Bang & Olafsen, don't expect to find a new old stock cartridge for it. They stopped making those decades ago and the ones that are available are very expensive.

Part of the secret is to be willing to walk. So expensive asking prices, even if I really want the item, don't bother me. There is nothing so rare about any used audio gear that justifies museum-piece prices unless your living room really is a museum.

TEAC made cassette decks identical to the best TASCAM studio rackmount 3-head machines ... made side-by-side on the same production line... except without balanced in/out (Your receiver have balanced tape loop? Didn't think so). The TEAC routinely sells on eBay for $100 or less, the TASCAM FOR $300~800.

Soundsmith makes new cartridges for B&O 'tables.

I see used 70's and 80's DENON AC Direct drive tables for sale at essentially the same asking price, regardless of whether the original MSRP was $300 or $700.

I see "vintage" mass-market Japanese HiFi from the 1980's selling for 1970's prices, when even well-regarded brands began churning out pure junk due to a sales crisis and bankruptcies, mergers and consolidation.

Don't buy anything made from about '82 to '92 unless you really know what it is. It's HiFi's "lost decade".

I can honestly say the worst sounding component I ever heard from a mainstream company was a mid-80's JVC "computer controlled" receiver that was top of the line.

Only buy true top-of-the-line or special statement products from the 70's or ealier; they will probably need a re-cap and it's not worth the expense otherwise.

If it is "powers on, untested" then pay max 10% of MSRP or $100, whichever is less.

You have to know your gear.

 

[TLS Guy]

You have to know what you are doing buying used.

In this day and age a receiver without HDMI is not very useful and be very limiting. It is not worth much.

I can buy used with care, and only buy gear used I know I can service and or restore. You have to know what is potentially fixable. Older gear with discrete transistors you can pretty much keep repairing for ever. Units with early chips sets have a high failure rate, and the chip you need will likely be NLA.

Buying used not working can be very worthwhile for me, but probably not many.

Buying used gear with aftermarket parts is highly problematic.

A Shure V15 xmr with a Jico stylus is not worth beans in my view, but one with the genuine Shure stylus is worth a lot of money.

Then there are classics. For these vintage rules apply. Many are willing to pay a premium for great classics. I note from eBay people do know what the classics are, and are prepared to pay for them.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Soundsmith carts for B&O turntables start at $199. If you can't afford that you can't afford a B&O.

I would not reccommend a B&O table in the first place (reliability is poor, parts are only available via cannabalism) but there uou go if you just gotta have it.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

You can get late 2000's pre-pro's for $400; HDMI plus the legacy connectors, MSRP $2000-ish, eg ONKYO INTEGRA 9.8

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

You can get late 2000's pre-pro's for $400; HDMI plus the legacy connectors, MSRP $2000-ish, eg ONKYO INTEGRA 9.8

Problem with HDMI it is not a fixed target, aka HDMI 1.1 is pretty different from HDMI 1.3 and 2.0 is vastly different again.
None of these versions are ever software upgradable.

So, if you plan to use it with cablebox - you'd probably be OK with any hdmi 1.1 gear, but if you plan on Playing blurays or worse 3d blurays, you'll have to do your homework and tread lightly.

I do agree Older Integra's are still solid value and at $400 are not terrible deal, but then again you could get a modern full AVR at that money with guaranteed support of latest feat.

 

[highfigh]

Part of the secret is to be willing to walk. So expensive asking prices, even if I really want the item, don't bother me. There is nothing so rare about any used audio gear that justifies museum-piece prices unless your living room really is a museum.

TEAC made cassette decks identical to the best TASCAM studio rackmount 3-head machines ... made side-by-side on the same production line... except without balanced in/out (Your receiver have balanced tape loop? Didn't think so). The TEAC routinely sells on eBay for $100 or less, the TASCAM FOR $300~800.

Soundsmith makes new cartridges for B&O 'tables.

I see used 70's and 80's DENON AC Direct drive tables for sale at essentially the same asking price, regardless of whether the original MSRP was $300 or $700.

I see "vintage" mass-market Japanese HiFi from the 1980's selling for 1970's prices, when even well-regarded brands began churning out pure junk due to a sales crisis and bankruptcies, mergers and consolidation.

Don't buy anything made from about '82 to '92 unless you really know what it is. It's HiFi's "lost decade".

I can honestly say the worst sounding component I ever heard from a mainstream company was a mid-80's JVC "computer controlled" receiver that was top of the line.

Only buy true top-of-the-line or special statement products from the 70's or ealier; they will probably need a re-cap and it's not worth the expense otherwise.

If it is "powers on, untested" then pay max 10% of MSRP or $100, whichever is less.

You have to know your gear.

A lot of people think they're obligated, just because they made the trip, IMO. "Well, I drove here, so I HAVE to buy SOMETHING".

Yeah, there was a lot of stuff made on the same lines, but little was known in the consumer market because the pro-sumer and consumer lines didn't exist to the extent they do now. BTW- I'm not using an AVR, I use a Parasound preamp that does have balanced in/out.

I went to a local show around the end of last year and was surprised to see the same model of TT that I have with a sticker for full list price, from 1982 ($400). They're selling for that price but adjusted for inflation, it's not equivalent. Still, it's a lot better than seeing fifty bucks on it. If I were to sell what I still have from the '80s, I would make money. The fact is, I'm still using most of it.

I mentioned Soundsmith in my post- I had heard/read about them a while ago, when I was looking into the possibility of re-tipping my Denon 103d but now that I have a microscope, I found that it doesn't need that. When I bought a B&O TT with a bad tip, I found them again and considered buying one, until I found that the shop with the TT I have had one that he had ordered for someone else, but they had decided not to buy since their only problem was dirt on the tip. I haven't listened to it a lot, but it's pretty good. I don't think it's as good as my Denon or AT cartridges, though. The B&O tables are going for a decent price, so I should be OK when I sell it.

It's a gamble, but a lot of integrated amps, cassette/open reel deck and receivers will be good pieces once the controls and switches have been cleaned. That hasn't hanged since these pieces were new.

 

[big O]

.

In this day and age a receiver without HDMI is not very useful and be very limiting. It is not worth much.
.

agreed, however there are some preamp out there that were best of the best about 15 years ago, with original selling price of $3000, Eg b&k reference 50 ,that now routinely sell for about 150.
I wouldn't mind getting a sound behemoth like that and the running the hdmi etc through an oppo 103 player. Matter of fact I know someone who does that(105D)

also, there are a couple of units out there with hdmi now available cheap. Rotel 1069 never goes for more than 300.it was over 2k new