This doesn't make sense.......

Earfull

Earfull

Junior Audioholic
OK OK OK. (said like Joe Pesci) I'm getting ready to set up my PJ & screen, but am confused on something:

13' x 19' room.
96" ceiling height.
Screen: 48x83 (45x80 white area).
Veiwing distance: 12'
PJ to screen: 15'
Panasonic AE900 PJ.

If my eyes are at about 38" when seated, and the screen is positioned so that that point is at the lower 1/3 level on the screen, well heck, if the PJ lens needs to be level with the top edge of the screen (or in a wee bit), then it looks like I'll need to mount the PJ a whopping 29" from the ceiling!
Sure, I could raise the screen a wee bit, but to the point where the PJ is not a noggin banger would be a "pain in the neck" for viewing right?

Assistance would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Francious70

Francious70

Senior Audioholic
Probabally not. You'd only really have to adjust you viewing angle up about 5 degrees max. And most of that will be done by your eyes and not you neck.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Remember, you should be able to adjust the keystoning on your PJ so you can mount it close to the ceiling, angle it downward, and adjust the image shape.
 
Earfull

Earfull

Junior Audioholic
I'm still confused. Doesn't that image attached (to the previous post) indeed show that it's supposed to be mounted at or within the top edge of the screen?
If not, then how far can one go above without loosing any picture quality?


Hmmmmmmm
 
brian32672

brian32672

Banned
Actually if you look at the bottom of that pic. It says not to scale. Also the range is also about 4" on that bracket. You can angle a PJ up or down, that is what the Kestone adjustment and Lens shift adjustment are for. Keystone would be best if it is at 0 degrees, but most will allow for 15 degree (or more) adjustment and will not loose picture quality.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
1. Do NOT use keystone if at all possible. This will degrade the image by rescaling it to fit into a non-square grid and you will be losing part of the 1280x720 matrix you just paid for.

2. If the AE900 is similar/identical to the AE700 then you may mount the projector above the top edge of the screen by a distance of about .13 times the screen height. Or, about 5 inches above the top of the screen.

3. Sit down in your chair in the room if possible. Then decide what a comfortable viewing height is for the screen. We typically have the bottom edge of the screen just below eye level. This puts the screen up higher, yes, but our big comfy chairs tend to lead us back a bit. Makes it very easy to deal with.

4. You could always get a in-ceiling, between the joists, projector lift. Then, when the projector is off, it would be hidden up in the ceiling. :)

5. You could also consider, if you don't have the AE900 already, perhaps waiting a month for the Sanyo Z4. If the Z4 maintains its lens shift like it did last year, you could place the projector almost 2 feet above the top of your screen. Which is just a few inches off the ceiling. The Z4 may end up being the hot projector of '06 if it does all it says it can. We'll see.

You have many options, but you may just have to live with the projector being a bit lower than you like. Mine is about a foot off the ceiling even with our screen raised a bit higher than yours. Nothing I can do about it short of installing a lift.
 
brian32672

brian32672

Banned
BMXTRIX said:
1. Do NOT use keystone if at all possible. This will degrade the image by rescaling it to fit into a non-square grid and you will be losing part of the 1280x720 matrix you just paid for.
Yeah, I kinda left that one open.
I will say what happens when you have to do more than 5 degrees of keystone it will slightly resize the image. But I have tried keystoning at even high rates, and it did not degrade the image (well at least in the 7 projectors I have/had). But yes, by all means try to keep the keystone at 0 degrees if possible...
Try to do the lens shift first....
 
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Earfull

Earfull

Junior Audioholic
Wow, thanks for all that. I've got this all drawn up in a CAD program, so here's what I've done:

- Sat up straight and made my eye level 40"
- Raised the screen so that my eye level is at 1/4 way up (not 1/3).
- Placed the PJ so that it the lens centre is 5" above top of screen.

The bottom of PJ is now 19" from ceiling, or 77" from floor (6'5"). Hmmm.

The only other tweek I can see available is to eliminate the 1.5" flat-black border I plan on painting around the perimiter of my GatorBoard screen. What do y'all think about that? Does one benefit from a black border?

(BTW: We will be using a regular couch).
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
No, that site is not accurate.

On the site it lists VS1 as being the measurement from the TOP of the projected image. Then it gives lens shift from the CENTER of the projected image.

VS1 actually is calculated this way:

VS1 = .63 x (image height) - (.5 x (image height))

More accurately:

VS1 = .13 x (image height)

As I stated in my prior post which meand without using keystone correction, you can place the projector's center lens about 5" above the top of the screen on center.

Lens shift is an optical process. The lens assembly is physically moved up and down to adjust the location of where the image will appear on the wall. Lens shift usually is centered on a projector so that at a neutral '0' position the projector will sit exactly halfway up/down a screen and will be projecting an image that is equidistant above, below, and side to side of the center of the lens. A multiplier then lets you know how far up you can move it. For the AE700 that multiplier is .63 times screen height. You do not tilt the projector at all, you simply move it straight up and keep the projector perfectly level. As long as you don't move it up (or down) more than .63 times screen height, you do not have to use keystone correction.

KEYSTONE CORRECTION - This is when you actually physically tilt the projector down or up (or side to side). As soon as you tilt the projector you will see that one end of the image is wider than the other end. In your case, if you tilt the projector down, you will see that the bottom of the image is wider than the top of the image. To correct this, digital circuitry processes the image so that a non-square image is projected. That is, instead of 1280 pixels being used top to bottom, the top of the projected image is 1280 pixels wide, and the bottom of the image may only be 1180 pixels wide. Then, from top to bottom more and more pixels are removed from the image.

Obviously, this immediately causes image degradation because pixels that are available, are not being used.

On the other hand, the AE700 still looks really good with some digital keystoning in use. It most definitely affects image quality though and was something I tested for the first time I put my hands on the projector. I turned keystone correction on to the lowest value and could (barely) see a slight drop in image quality where the correction was taking place. (bottom of the screen)

It is something I recommend that people try to avoid and one of the reason the AE700 and Z3 were so popular. The InFocus SP4805 and Optoma H31 are great machines, but without lens shift and a good zoom range, they are much more critical to place correctly.

The Z3 most of all offerred a LOT of lens shift which make it much more ideal for a situation like you are in. Many also considered the Z3 to have a superior image to the AE700 - which is of course, debatable.

If you have already received the AE900 then you can easily check the full extent of the lens shift out just by plugging in an extension cord and pulling out a ladder and projecting on your wall.

CAD is nice, but it is far easier, quicker, and (IMO) more accurate to see results by simply hooking it up and seeing what height looks best to you.

If you have NOT ordered the AE900 - then perhaps waiting for the Z4 is in order?
 
Earfull

Earfull

Junior Audioholic
Thanks for the extensive help. Appreciated.
Oy, I knew there was a reason I failed math.

So, basically, I can have the lens 5" above top edge of screen before keystoning comes into play.....correct?

So now, how much more elevation is considerable keystoning? Does an additional 2" in PJ height exercise only a tiny bit of keystoning or quite a lot?
I guess because I want to get the PJ up as much as possible, I'd be willing to employ a wee bit of keystoning, but obviously don't want to experience a noticable degredation in image quality.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Just to double check: You already purchased the AE900?

I didn't play that much with the keystoning. Just a little bit as I never plan to use it. I would think you could wait and test it to see how high you can put it and still like the image. If you plan your build carefully and use a mount that allows you to run the wires hidden up through the ceiling, then you can put a extra couple of feet of wire in the celing. If the projector ends up higher than you are happy with, then you can simply get a new extension pole for the projector that is longer and drop it a few inches - or more. The setup will look exactly the same. But, you have that option to move the projector up and down.

They also sell adjustable height poles, but they cost more and don't look as good as fixed length poles.
 
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