Things which driving me mad - Wedding Photographers

[BoredSysAdmin]

This happened almost 2 years ago. Found it by mistake going thru some old emails. Still driving me mad the approach, attitude and mindset of most of people who responded to me, including the author.

https://petapixel.com/2015/11/22/how-i-deal-with-price-haggling-as-a-photographer/

Bear in mind that besides my regular full time day job (I'm not rich, but finally doing somewhat ok, staring getting comp'd at decent levels about 2-3 years ,AFTER events mentioned in my original comment. At that time - ie about 9 years ago, I worked for scraps) I'm also doing IT consulting on side for one-two small clients then I have some time.
I'm also more than casual photographer. I own few Nikon DSLRs and (slowly) growing collection of lenses.

Iphones and instagam will kill most of their income sooner or later.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't see what your beef is with the point that the author was trying to make. If you think a wedding photographer is quoting too high of a price for their services, don't use their services. It is that simple. Personally, I prefer the writer's approach to that situation. I had a friend years ago who used a professional photographer's services at his wedding. When the pictures were ready, the photographer asked for all kinds of other fees that were not agreed to originally, and would not deliver the pictures unless paid these additional amounts. Basically he was holding the wedding pictures ransom unless paid more money. This was the only polished, professional documentation of that event, so that photographer knew what he had and what it meant. The whole thing turned pretty nasty.

It is worth paying a premium for someone with a good reputation.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

James,
I think that you missed two important points.
A) it's not about paying $3k vs looking to haggle down to $2k. I wasn't in financial situation to afford even $500. Nor I was interested in having his colleges follow us whole day. The price seems so outrageously high at the time I didn't haggle.
2) All the things and services related to wedding are hugely overpriced. This includes without fail photographer.

 

[highfigh]

How long did the photographer spend learning to compose photos, use cameras, etc and what is their reputation? Is it an actual business or a hobby? If it's a business, there are costs involved that most people never consider. How would you recover the cost of everything involved in this kind of endeavor?

That price may have been his way of saying he's too busy to cram your wedding into his schedule without saying "I'm not interested".

Knowing that most custom integrators who do that as a real business charge $70-$150/hour, how would you react to the estimate for a small-ish home theater system installation when a complete pre-wire can take many hours in a moderate-sized house?

DIY-ers can do some things, but the results from a professional can be far beyond their level. Any idiot with a smart phone thinks they're a photographer, but if you look at their photos, they usually suck. That said, the bad photos did capture the event and most people don't analyze photos or even music to the extent of someone who does them for a living.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Mastering photo composition could take a lifetime and some so called "pro" wedding photographers honestly sucks at it. It's not uncommon for IT consultants to change similar range charges and time to troubleshoot and fix complex issue may be long.
I'm not trying to rally against the topic of honest work should be compensated fairly, but if I asked guy I know fairly well to assist me with planting one pot flower, instead he tells me that only work he does is Royal gardens and it would cost me a Kings randsom.
He may be best Royal Gardener for all I care and the quote is more than fair for time and effort required, but again, I don't want or need a Royal gardens.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
2) All the things and services related to wedding are hugely overpriced. This includes without fail photographer.

You are not kidding. Consumer Reports had an article about this not that long ago. As soon as you mention "Wedding" you are on a much higher menu to start with. A cake for a birthday or some such can cost a lot more, same size, etc. just because it if for a wedding. Reception room, same; and everything else, price through the roof.
Good thing I don't have daughters.

 

[shadyJ]

Let's see how many people agree with this statement: "The nicer the wedding, the worse the marriage." I think anyone who is after a fairytale wedding is going to be expecting a fairytale marriage, and will inevitably be smashed by reality. Never been married myself, but this has been my observation over the years.

 

[agarwalro]

My ex had our son's first pro set done. I decided to forgo prints because the photographer had the options to get 10 for $100 up to 50 for $500 as full rez digital copies.

Well, when the set showed up online for preview and selection, there were 27 unique shots with the remainder being Photoshop filters like B/W and Sepia. In some cases there were 3 or 4 versions of the same shot. I can't recall exactly, but, I ended up paying ton and had to bite my tongue to get what I could.

The snazzy USB drive and nicely printed card and straw twine did not make up for how thoroughly scammed I felt.

The ex did let me have some of her spare prints when she realized how F-ed up the digital copy situation turned out to be.

To be fair, there were some really good shots among the 50 that were available. Maybe 10 or 15. My gripe is mainly around the digital copy situation.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Let's see how many people agree with this statement: "The nicer the wedding, the worse the marriage." I think anyone who is after a fairytale wedding is going to be expecting a fairytale marriage, and will inevitably be smashed by reality. Never been married myself, but this has been my observation over the years.

I feel that there's no direct correlation between how much money spent on wedding and happiness and/or duration of marriage. However, since wedding party is for only to please the bride, the more extravagant the party, typically more spoiled the bride. So you may be onto something here James

 

[TheWarrior]

I feel that there's no direct correlation between how much money spent on wedding and happiness and/or duration of marriage. However, since wedding party is for only to please the bride, the more extravagant the party, typically more spoiled the bride. So you may be onto something here James

Some people feel they need a Disney Fairytale Wedding - my wife had to start there when she was promoted to events at Disney and has been asked to plan countless other weddings since. Strangely, she wanted a court house wedding with a small reception for ours....

Some people feel the need for commitment and companionship from a single person. Some people confuse that with lust and tend to wander within the first few years.

Some people see a fancy SLR camera and think it'll allow them to take great photos. Some people know you're not just capturing a photo, but you're also capturing a scene that should tell it's own story.

And some people know the wedding industry is pure profit!

 

[highfigh]

You are not kidding. Consumer Reports had an article about this not that long ago. As soon as you mention "Wedding" you are on a much higher menu to start with. A cake for a birthday or some such can cost a lot more, same size, etc. just because it if for a wedding. Reception room, same; and everything else, price through the roof.
Good thing I don't have daughters.

My cousin paid for the cake when her daughter was married and when she told me the price, I asked "What else does it do?". In 1998, it was $900 and it wasn't huge. It also had been covered with Fondant which, if anyone doesn't know, is a decorative sheet of sugar and other ingredients that's formed over the cake as a kind of skin, to fit and not slathered on like frosting. It can also be cut into different shapes and applied to the cake as additional decoration. Well, later that evening, we were talking about the day and another cousin's husband said "Boy, the hide (as in, cow hide) on that cake was kind of tough".

 

[highfigh]

Some people see a fancy SLR camera and think it'll allow them to take great photos. Some people know you're not just capturing a photo, but you're also capturing a scene that should tell it's own story.

I have seen many photos that were shot with a simple pinhole box camera that put others shot with "better" equipment to shame WRT composition and exposure- with a competent person behind it, anything with a PHD button can do a great job. Beginners should start with something basic- cameras with all of the bells and whistles should be avoided until they can get it right with a point and shoot because those just confuse people, IMO.

'PHD' = 'Push Here, Dummy'.

 

[Alex2507]

$150/hr?

I'm throwing out every hammer I own.

if I asked guy I know fairly well to assist me

The problem here is that you didn't really know the guy all that well to begin with ... but you know him now.

Hack his computer and let him get to know you like you know him.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

I'm throwing out every hammer I own.
....

Do you offer free shipping? I still have room and my will can be amended.

 

[panteragstk]

I got lucky with my wedding. Now mother-in-law used to do planning and decorating for weddings. Her cousin also does and is a FANTASTIC baker. Didn't have to pay for flower arrangements or either cake.

I told my sister who got married last week to spend it on a honeymoon instead. She didn't listen.

I'll tell my kids the same. Told my wife when I proposed that she could do what she wanted and all I wanted was to pick my cake and to know where to be and when to be there. That's pretty much all I had to do. I couldn't have cared less about the wedding. Just a show to me. Waste of time and money.

 

[Alex2507]

Do you offer free shipping? I still have room and my will can be amended.

Free shipping but the handling ... $150/hr. That's my new price for everything.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Wedding photos are way over-rated in importance, IMO. I can't remember the last time we looked at ours - and we were damned good-lookin' couple! Just like getting expensive china that never sees the light of day...

 

[jinjuku]

Not sure what the issue is. You asked for a service and it was priced out of your ability at that time.

I get calls like that all the time: You mean it's $99 a month and not just straight out $99? If that's where the mindset currently is I'm not about to burn the time to talk you into $99 a month for a completely managed, backed up, hosted service.

The delta is just too great and you aren't the type of customer we want.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Not sure what the issue is. You asked for a service and it was priced out of your ability at that time.

I get calls like that all the time: You mean it's $99 a month and not just straight out $99? If that's where the mindset currently is I'm not about to burn the time to talk you into $99 a month for a completely managed, backed up, hosted service.

The delta is just too great and you aren't the type of customer we want.

$99 per month is for whole company or per each user?

There few issues:
a) I'd asked him for few wood planks over a narrow forest stream and he's tried to sell me a Verrazano bridge.
b) The price for said said bridge is obviously was way above my budget. I don't want to call it a rip off, that would be unfair of me, but bear with me: I've seen this guy work - he's not bad, but definitely he's reusing pretty much same photoshop filters. Willing to bet they are already configured as batch jobs and other than cropping and adjusting basic light settings, the rest is done by said batch jobs. With that in mind, paying 3k for full day work of one Jr. photographer and one assistance (if you remember the "Maestro" was too busy to do shooting himself) and bit of photoshopping seems excessive even by current income level.
c) and finally, I think I have good reason to be bitter with him since I was clearly not his typical customer, why he couldn't simply forward me to his less expensive colleagues ?

 

[jinjuku]

$99 per month is for whole company or per each user?

There few issues:
a) I'd asked him for few wood planks over a narrow forest stream and he's tried to sell me a Verrazano bridge.
b) The price for said said bridge is obviously was way above my budget. I don't want to call it a rip off, that would be unfair of me, but bear with me: I've seen this guy work - he's not bad, but definitely he's reusing pretty much same photoshop filters. Willing to bet they are already configured as batch jobs and other than cropping and adjusting basic light settings, the rest is done by said batch jobs. With that in mind, paying 3k for full day work of one Jr. photographer and one assistance (if you remember the "Maestro" was too busy to do shooting himself) and bit of photoshopping seems excessive even by current income level.
c) and finally, I think I have good reason to be bitter with him since I was clearly not his typical customer, why he couldn't simply forward me to his less expensive colleagues ?

$99 per retail location (goes up with size just like electricity).

a> We have a minimum fee for custom dev. It's $1000 regardless if you want us to code 'Hello World'. It's a filter. A filter so we don't deal with a certain type of clientele. We are in the bridge building segment. Not the plank over a stream.

b> We build automation tools all the time and we try to use them as much as possible. If you know how to build the automation tools then why would you need us? We had one gizmo that was costing us $560. We developed a gizmo that did the same thing and our cost is $140. We still charge $1059. If one of our customers went and developed the same for $99 good for them and I say to go for it.

c> We don't refer anyone. They can either hire us to find another outfit. Our options are: Refer out and not get paid, or not go through the effort of referring out and not get paid. We've always preferred the approach were were we get paid for our time. We are a for profit enterprise.