These Days you Never Know which Piece of Modern Tech will Blind Side You.

[TLS Guy]

So, yesterday afternoon I got dealt a 'blinder."

All of a sudden everything connected to our wired Ethernet network stopped working. Only Wi-Fi would work.

So I rebooted the patch bays hubs and computers to no avail. When interrogating the computers, it said no valid IP address.

So I was forced to get hold of my eldest son David. He was still at work in downtown Minneapolis.

He managed to get into my Network remotely. It took some time. At first he thought it was the router, but I had rebooted that twice already. I think I rebooted everything I could remember to no effect. "Sod's law" was in action here yesterday. He took some time to interrogate everything connected to the Ethernet. He was certain that the culprit was the Ethernet POE switch for the security system which powers the security alarm and the four security cameras. So he told me to reboot that. After that all units came back on line one by one.

So as far as I'm concerned that POE is a POS. It was supplied by the vendor. Anyhow I have ordered a top of the line T-P Link unit from Amazon, which will be here tonight.

That sure was a learning experience for me!

 

[highfigh]

So, yesterday afternoon I got dealt a 'blinder."

All of a sudden everything connected to our wired Ethernet network stopped working. Only Wi-Fi would work.

So I rebooted the patch bays hubs and computers to no avail. When interrogating the computers, it said no valid IP address.

So I was forced to get hold of my eldest son David. He was still at work in downtown Minneapolis.

He managed to get into my Network remotely. It took some time. At first he thought it was the router, but I had rebooted that twice already. I think I rebooted everything I could remember to no effect. "Sod's law" was in action here yesterday. He took some time to interrogate everything connected to the Ethernet. He was certain that the culprit was the Ethernet POE switch for the security system which powers the security alarm and the four security cameras. So he told me to reboot that. After that all units came back on line one by one.

So as far as I'm concerned that POE is a POS. It was supplied by the vendor. Anyhow I have ordered a top of the line T-P Link unit from Amazon, which will be here tonight.

That sure was a learning experience for me!

Look at the specs for the POE switch- they show a 'budget' for power throughput and sometimes, being close to the limit is basically the same as being over. Make sure it has

If you care about NDAA, TP-Link is being considered for being banned due to their ties to the Chinese government. Dahua/HikVisinn (and other companies tied to them) are alreaduy on the DOJ's list of 'Do Not Use' products.

The thing that's a PITA is that TP-Link products are pretty decent- I have used a fair number and they don't give me the problems of other brands.

FWIW, I have had similar problems in networks that DIDN'T use POE and as a last resort, I power cycled the network switch and that was the solution. I contacted the mamufacturer and they were as confused as I was. Modems, routers, access points- sure, but a non-managed switch? That was weird.

I don't know if you have any accesspoints and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't use Apple network hardware, but I have seen whole wired networks crash as soon as a single Airport Express was connected by not using their terminology during setup. Unplug that and everything went back to normal. Apple never should have gotten into that market.

 

[TLS Guy]

Look at the specs for the POE switch- they show a 'budget' for power throughput and sometimes, being close to the limit is basically the same as being over. Make sure it has

If you care about NDAA, TP-Link is being considered for being banned due to their ties to the Chinese government. Dahua/HikVisinn (and other companies tied to them) are alreaduy on the DOJ's list of 'Do Not Use' products.

The thing that's a PITA is that TP-Link products are pretty decent- I have used a fair number and they don't give me the problems of other brands.

FWIW, I have had similar problems in networks that DIDN'T use POE and as a last resort, I power cycled the network switch and that was the solution. I contacted the mamufacturer and they were as confused as I was. Modems, routers, access points- sure, but a non-managed switch? That was weird.

I don't know if you have any accesspoints and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't use Apple network hardware, but I have seen whole wired networks crash as soon as a single Airport Express was connected by not using their terminology during setup. Unplug that and everything went back to normal. Apple never should have gotten into that market.

That information is false.

The TP link PoE I installed was a: -
TL-SG1005P

This is a statement from TP Link about false information.

The unit I have was made in Vietnam.

The unit it replaced was the TENDnet TPA TG50. This unit was supplied by the vendor last year when our system was updated. It was made in Taiwan.

Its maximum power output is 30 watts, the four security cameras consume 26 watts, which is close to maximum capacity and left a slim margin.

The new TP Link PoE has a maximum 60 watt power output, so I have slightly in excess of 100% power margin, which is the way gear should be specked. However vendors want the cheapest they can get away with.

The longer I live the more I believe you need "eyes in the back of your neck and you have to check everything and NOT take it on trust. You just have to continually play the PITA card.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

PoE, like HDMI and USB, comes in different versions, with a different power budget, cable length support, switch ports, and consumer equipment. It's like a non-fun game of mix and match, except you are almost guaranteed to lose if you're not paying attention.
This article covers most main PoE types:

Understanding PoE Types - PoE+ and PoE++

A guide to understanding PoE types, the difference between PoE+ and PoE++, and the best use for each of them.

planetechusa.com

It's not 100% complete as there are additional types like a few proprietary solutions, and passive-PoE as well.
More on these is here:

Power over Ethernet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[highfigh]

That information is false.

The TP link PoE I installed was a: -
TL-SG1005P

This is a statement from TP Link about false information.

The unit I have was made in Vietnam.

The unit it replaced was the TENDnet TPA TG50. This unit was supplied by the vendor last year when our system was updated. It was made in Taiwan.

Its maximum power output is 30 watts, the four security cameras consume 26 watts, which is close to maximum capacity and left a slim margin.

The new TP Link PoE has a maximum 60 watt power output, so I have slightly in excess of 100% power margin, which is the way gear should be specked. However vendors want the cheapest they can get away with.

The longer I live the more I believe you need "eyes in the back of your neck and you have to check everything and NOT take it on trust. You just have to continually play the PITA card.

It applies to routers, my suppliers need to get their facts straight and some of them sell this brand as well as HikVision. I have used a TP-Link WAP in my garage for quite awhile- very easy to setup and it has worked great.

 

[TLS Guy]

PoE, like HDMI and USB, comes in different versions, with a different power budget, cable length support, switch ports, and consumer equipment. It's like a non-fun game of mix and match, except you are almost guaranteed to lose if you're not paying attention.
This article covers most main PoE types:

Understanding PoE Types - PoE+ and PoE++

A guide to understanding PoE types, the difference between PoE+ and PoE++, and the best use for each of them.

planetechusa.com

It's not 100% complete as there are additional types like a few proprietary solutions, and passive-PoE as well.
More on these is here:

Power over Ethernet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Technically the PoE + should have powered those cameras, but it left no margin. Good engineering always leaves significant margin. So, I think using a PoE +++ device was the right approach.

 

[highfigh]

Technically the PoE + should have powered those cameras, but it left no margin. Good engineering always leaves significant margin. So, I think using a PoE +++ device was the right approach.

'Should have' applies to far too many electronic items.

The thing about ISPs and other providers- they all want to eliminate the hardware they have provided in the past. ATT stopped installing Copper lines TO the poles years ago, Time Warner/Spectrum/Charter have been pushing AppleTV, XUMO and Roku for a few years ago so they can get more people to use their crappy app and that saves them a lot of money. If they could eliminate the use of contract installation, they would be miles ahead- those guys are really bad. They don't have the technical training/knowledge, they don't have the tools needed, they leave without fininshing the work, do the work incredibly poorly and one cut the cable feed to the house next to the one he was connecting which, unfortunately, was also a Spectrum customer. They were MY customer, too- the photo shows what remained after one of their installers left on a day I wasn't at that house. The next installer and a supervisor were amazed- said they would make sure changes were made.......

 

[j_garcia]

Installers here have been pretty good recently, however you literally have to argue with the company to get someone to come out and they charge me for it, even when it is their issue. I have not had any major issues recently, but when it comes to the new internet, it is always something.

For me it is Win11. Sometimes it does not recognize my devices, even when I've been working for up to 1hr. Then I get drops, random device disconnects (BT) and just annoying small issues for no apparent reason. Reboot often fixes it, but shouldn't be necessary.

 

[TLS Guy]

Installers here have been pretty good recently, however you literally have to argue with the company to get someone to come out and they charge me for it, even when it is their issue. I have not had any major issues recently, but when it comes to the new internet, it is always something.

For me it is Win11. Sometimes it does not recognize my devices, even when I've been working for up to 1hr. Then I get drops, random device disconnects (BT) and just annoying small issues for no apparent reason. Reboot often fixes it, but shouldn't be necessary.

I agree. Building a really stable Ethernet and Wi-Fi infrastructure takes a lot of work and experience. Fortunately I have a very experienced son to help me.

Unfortunately a lot of this is caused by older buildings not designed for this modern age, which incidentally builders are still cobbling together.

Neighbors and individuals on the local next door forum, are always having issues with this, and universally blaming their service which is seldom responsible.

As things get more complicated I fear homes are going to have to be remodeled and wired for this new information age, and made updatable.

I understood this 20 years ago with the remodel of our lake home and made sure I followed through on this one.

Just using Wi-Fi for almost everything does not cut it.

 

[jinjuku]

So, yesterday afternoon I got dealt a 'blinder."

All of a sudden everything connected to our wired Ethernet network stopped working. Only Wi-Fi would work.

So I rebooted the patch bays hubs and computers to no avail. When interrogating the computers, it said no valid IP address.

So I was forced to get hold of my eldest son David. He was still at work in downtown Minneapolis.

He managed to get into my Network remotely. It took some time. At first he thought it was the router, but I had rebooted that twice already. I think I rebooted everything I could remember to no effect. "Sod's law" was in action here yesterday. He took some time to interrogate everything connected to the Ethernet. He was certain that the culprit was the Ethernet POE switch for the security system which powers the security alarm and the four security cameras. So he told me to reboot that. After that all units came back on line one by one.

So as far as I'm concerned that POE is a POS. It was supplied by the vendor. Anyhow I have ordered a top of the line T-P Link unit from Amazon, which will be here tonight.

That sure was a learning experience for me!

I liked used market for PoE switches. I picked up a Juniper EX3300 48 Port PoE+ and 4 SFP+ (10Gbe) for $49 shipped from Ebay. Patched to the last release and used the GUI to put in my VLAN's and trunk port to my Firewall.

Kills any of the consumer/SMB gear.

I do run 3X TP Link for my wireless and for $60 an AP, @ VHT40, and hitting 480mbps with it.

 

[j_garcia]

I agree. Building a really stable Ethernet and Wi-Fi infrastructure takes a lot of work and experience. Fortunately I have a very experienced son to help me.

Unfortunately a lot of this is caused by older buildings not designed for this modern age, which incidentally builders are still cobbling together.

Neighbors and individuals on the local next door forum, are always having issues with this, and universally blaming their service which is seldom responsible.

As things get more complicated I fear homes are going to have to be remodeled and wired for this new information age, and made updatable.

I understood this 20 years ago with the remodel of our lake home and made sure I followed through on this one.

Just using Wi-Fi for almost everything does not cut it.

My Son in law is also highly skilled with networks, so when it is above my pay grade, I call him in

WiFi is actually getting better, but you are right, with as much tech that requires internet that alone isn't enough.