The ultimate...

[boarderofwake]

Okay, I want to apologize first off before getting started here, because this may well be one of those threads that the moderators frown upon. If it is, please let me know, and I will try to find a better section in this forums to post it.

Now, with that said...

I have recently purchased a Bose 5.1 system with a Sony 7.1 receiver. It's not too bad for just starting out, but I've decided to save my money the rest of this year and at the end of this year, I want to put together the ULTIMATE surround sound system. I want to start researching now, and I need you guys' help!

I am basically looking to build a 7.2 system. I remember how back in the day (and it still may be true today), the THX systems used to have two subwoofers. I'm trying to imitate that sort of set-up, but only better.

Here is the new set-up I want to design. I would like two (2) subwoofers up front, each powered by their own amplifiers, in addition to a center speaker, front left and front right speakers, right and left speakers, and back left and back right speakers.

The last detail is my living room is square. It's 24 x 24.

Now, let's forget all about costs, and let's just focus on the best quality.

First, if you could buy any surround sound receiver, which one would you buy? It must be 7.1, and it has to decode TrueHD, DTS-Master Audio, Dolby Digital, etc.

Second, I want to keep all the surround sound speakers the same brand; however, I understand that sometimes companies that make great surround speakers don't make great subwoofers, so different brand subwoofers is okay. Therefore, if you could buy any brand surround sound speakers, which would you buy?

Third, I need some incredibly awesome subwoofers. When I watch a movie such as Transformers, I want my bones to fracture. I remember back in the day, there used to be different size subwoofers, such as 16 inch versus 18 inch. I don't know if that's still true today. At any rate, what size subwoofers should I get with respect to a perfect balance between response and frequencies it's able to handle? Who makes the best subwoofers? Additionally, what amplifier should I buy to power them?

I want to have fun with this, and with you guys' help here, I don't think this will be such an impossible task!

 

[Midcow2]

Seriously No budget ??? -- Budget?

Oxymoron: Bose and Ulitmate surround sound.

Can sell your Bose system? This is probably going to be your limiting factor to good sound, much less very good sound, excellent sound or ultimate sound.

====

My idea of the ultimate


McIntosh
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/

Pre-processor MX136
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/1078.asp

Amp - MC2KW
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/mcintosh-mc2kw-2000-watt-reference-power-amplifier.asp

Wilson Audio speakers
http://avland.co.uk/audioquest/everest/everest.htm

Speakers: Alexandria
http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product/alexandria/
Subwoofers - Thor's HHamer
http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product/thor/


audioquest cables - everest
http://avland.co.uk/audioquest/everest/everest.htm



==========
Seriously what is your budget? for speakers, subwoofer, AVR (audio Video receiver)

Good luck!

MidCow2

 

[sptrout]

Agree 100% with Midcow2; read the following: http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html Then sell the Bose speakers and startover.

 

[Shock]

Speakers:
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/mview.asp?id=415

Receiver:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Home+Entertainment/A+V+Receivers/Elite+A+V+Receivers/ci.SC-09TXH.Kuro?tab=B

Oh yeah....you'll need a sub

Subwoofer:
http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=3

Done and done.

About 100k worth of equipment.

 

[deedubb]

Speakers:
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/mview.asp?id=415

Receiver:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Home+Entertainment/A+V+Receivers/Elite+A+V+Receivers/ci.SC-09TXH.Kuro?tab=B

Oh yeah....you'll need a sub

Subwoofer:
http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=3

Done and done.

About 100k worth of equipment.

Great recommendations! He wants 2 subs. I'd actually suggest 4 of those babies, one placed at the middle of each wall.

 

[Chopin_Guy]

As eveyone has said here SELL THE BOSE and start over....

Secondly, please let us know a budget that you are looking to spend that way we don't spin our wheels giving you suggestions....unless you can affor 100k plus...then we can spin our wheels giving you all kind of rediculously high-end suggestions...

Most importantly, if you want sound quality--- B(uy) O(other) S(sound) E(equipment)

 

[boarderofwake]

Well, the Bose are basically my introduction into home theater audio. They are by no means a final solution. Yes, I will definitely be getting rid of them. I think my youngest brother could use them in his dorm, once I get this new system in line.

The budget I am working with isn't outrageous or anything. I'm trying to stay within the $10,000 to $12,000 range.

Also, someone made a suggestion for four subs, and that is definitely something I'd like to try to do. I didn't realize you could have four. I was worried I could get the two I wanted! If I can make four fit within my budget, I would love to go that route.

I'm obviously new to this, so let me thank you guys for the awesome information you've provided so far. I've already learned a lot. I'm definitely taking notes here.

As soon as I get the final list together, I'll post it for critique.

Please keep the information and suggestions coming. I really can't thank you guys enough for sharing your knowledge!

So now, let's change the criteria to a 7.4 system, instead of a 7.2!

 

[jostenmeat]

24x24 = square = not good. even if not square, with 12k, id budget at least 1k for treatments. But I don't DIY. Honestly, I'd be going for more like 2k possibly.

3 identical towers across the front, if allowable. If you can do this, upright, same plane, you are waaaaaaaaaaay ahead in the game, even if this means going to a lower level speaker. Not that you have to, but driving home a point.

two subs come very close to the performance of 4 subs in a rectangular room. very, very close according the harman, I believe, white paper. Again, problem is square room. Treat it well.

If you want a pre/pro, that's fine and dandy, but if you want to save money here, a receiver acting as pre/pro will save. Depends on the choice. If thinking 1k for receiver, might as well just get a pre/pro. Add at least three channels of amp for the front three. Amping (with outboard/separates) other speakers may or may not be desirable.

try 38% room length for listening position for starters. doesn't matter if from front wall or back wall.

 

[Midcow2]

My recommendation

Well, the Bose are basically my introduction into home theater audio. They are by no means a final solution. Yes, I will definitely be getting rid of them. I think my youngest brother could use them in his dorm, once I get this new system in line.

The budget I am working with isn't outrageous or anything. I'm trying to stay within the $10,000 to $12,000 range.

Also, someone made a suggestion for four subs, and that is definitely something I'd like to try to do. I didn't realize you could have four. I was worried I could get the two I wanted! If I can make four fit within my budget, I would love to go that route.

I'm obviously new to this, so let me thank you guys for the awesome information you've provided so far. I've already learned a lot. I'm definitely taking notes here.

As soon as I get the final list together, I'll post it for critique.

Please keep the information and suggestions coming. I really can't thank you guys enough for sharing your knowledge!

So now, let's change the criteria to a 7.4 system, instead of a 7.2!

Okay now some more reasonable ideas. Josetenmeat has already given some very good advice.

A square room is probably the worst shape fro good acoustices that is the reason for acoustic treatments.

Three front towers is a great idea. The fronts and center are you most important and the center should match the fronts a close as possible to maintain timbre (semaless) front sound. Obviously if you have three identical speakers the will match perfectly.

The surrounds are not as important IMHO, but true fanatics will tell you to have seven identical speakers.

As far as receiver or AVR (Audio Video Receiver) out of your budget you should spend about 1/3 on AVR and 2/3 on speakers. Your best factor in sound quality comes from the speakers.

Now Subwoofer, even for a room your size, I think 4 is an overkill. You could put in two SVS PB13- Ultras $1,599 each or two JBL Audio 113a FATHOMs for $3,600 each and have great subwoofer sound. If you have multiple subs , it is best if the subs are the same.

I personally like the Definitive Technology speakers ( even though they may be too Inexpensive fro you budget $10-$12 K is a very nice budget assuming you are not also including audio stands/furntiure , TVs, BD players). Two Def Tech BP7000SC towers at $2,749 each and a CLR3000 center for $1099 or Three BP7000SC.

For surrounds the four Def Tech BVPX speakers at $699 each.

I have a Marantz SR8002 AVR and it would work very well in your nevironment. It rertails for $1999.99

There are also good yamaha, Denon, Pineer Elite and Obnkyo choices. You can also go separate pre-pros ( pre processor and switching) and amps.

get cable and connectors from Monoprice or bluejeancables ( don't get monster)

Get APC H15 power conditioner on sale now for $149 from Audioholics - retail $450

====

Okay My rec!

1- $1,000 acoustic treatment
2 -SVS PB13-Ultra subs - $3,200
2- Def Tech BP700SC front speakers -$5,500
1- Def Tech CLR3000 center - $1100
4- Def Tech BVPX surrounds - $2,800
1- Marantz SR8002
cables- $150
APC H15 power conditioner - $150
Radio Shack SPL (sound Pressure Level) meter to tune your sound $50

total: $13,950

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Denon 5308 with EP2500

Paradigm Sig S8

1 OR 2 Dawg Crusher subs

Done.....

 

[boarderofwake]

Well, let me run this by you guys...

A friend of mine suggested that I start listening to JBL for the speakers, SVS for the subwoofers, and look at Pioneer for the A/V receiver. Would this be a pretty good place to start?

 

[Adam]

I have an SVS sub and Pioneer receiver, and I'm very happy with both of them. I don't have any experience with JBL speakers - but I'd suggest that you go out and audition as many brands/models as you can...well, until you find what you like.

 

[AVRat]

Short list of speaker manufacturers to consider:

ACI, Aperion Audio, Ascend Acoustics, Atlantic Tech, AV123, Axiom, BG Corp., B&W, Dali, Definitive Technology, Dynaudio, Energy, Epik Subs, Focal/JM Lab, HSU, Infinity, Jamo, JBL, JTR, KEF, Klipsch, MK, Magnepan, Martin Logan, Monitor Audio, NHT, Paradigm, Phase Technology, Polk Audio, PSB, RBH, SVS, Vandersteen, Vienna Acoustics.

Dual SVS PB13-Ultras, Epic Conquests, HSU ULS-15s for the subs.

How high is your ceiling?

 

[no. 5]

24x24 = square = not good. even if not square, with 12k, id budget at least 1k for treatments. But I don't DIY. Honestly, I'd be going for more like 2k possibly.

...

two subs come very close to the performance of 4 subs in a rectangular room. very, very close according the harman, I believe, white paper. Again, problem is square room. Treat it well.

Agreed.

The room and the loudspeakers perform as a single system; you cannot dump "the ultimate" speakers into a room and expect to automatically have world class performance, the effects of the room must be considered too.

For the low frequency side of things, one sub near each corner of the room, but six feet from each wall, should give you best results.
For higher frequencies, it would help some to know the acoustical performance of the speakers you are considering.

 

[Bluesmoke]

For speakers, just visit your local audio shops to get an idea of what you like.

Personally, I think Paradigm Signature 7.1 setup would be more than addequate. For subs, 2 SVS PB13 or HSU ULS15 placed at the front and back of the room will do wonders.

For receiver, I would go with a Marantz or Denon. Emotiva now has a nice sale, pick up an amp. That's a pretty big room.

 

[kyeo138]

I'm kinda putting together a reasonably modest one myself. I have an older Yamaha 6.2 (the YHT-900 HTIB actually, with an extra Onkyo sub).
It's sounds ok, but i've had it for about 8 years and I've heard really nice systems. So I know enough to know what I'm missing out on, without being an audiophile zealot (but slowly working my way up there lol).

Here's what I've decided on (and the upgrades I would get if I had no budget):
(Basically Yamaha RX-Z7, SVS MTS Full size 7.0 with 2 SVS PB-13 Ultras). Doing the Receiver definitely this year, maybe the PB-13Ultra. Probably the MTS-01 next year.


Receiver: Yamaha RX-Z7
Upgrade would be the Yamaha RX-Z11

Speakers: SVS MTS-01 Full size 7.0
Upgrade probably to the Paradigms.

Subwoofer: SVS PB13-Ultra (each seperately) ~$1800

 

[boarderofwake]

Okay, so I listened to my first few set-ups tonight.

I checked out the high-end JBL system, and I didn't like it. It sounded sort of "tin-canny".

I heard a Klipsch system. It sounded better than the JBL, for sure, and I liked it. However, it was still lacking a little. Maybe I wasn't listening to the high-end components? I forgot to right down the model numbers of the speakers I was listening to.

I heard a Polk Audio system, and it really sounded good. It was a 7.4 system run through a Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver. The center channel had a Polk LSIC and a Velodyne DLS-4000R subwoofer running through it. The front left and right channels had Polk LSI9's with 2 (one for each channel) Velodyne DLS-5000R subwoofers running through them. The left and right surround channels had Polk LSIFX's in dipole mode. The rear channels had LSI9's running through them. The main subwoofer running through the LFE channel was a Velodyne DD-18 subwoofer.

The system just boomed. I really enjoyed the sound of it.

I'm going tomorrow to a real high-end home theater store to listen to some more stuff, but starting out with an initial set-up, what is everyone's critique of the above Polk Audio/Velodyne set-up? I really liked it, and it's within my range.

 

[Tiguron]

Make sure you use the same source material for listening. Could be a favourite CD or DVD, just make sure it is the same thing you are listening to. Also, take a notepad and write down what you like and dislike about each set up. Pretty soon your brain will start mixing up what you remember.