The Least Expensive, Truly Full-Range Loudspeakers?

I

Irishman

Audioholic
Just as the name implies, I'm curious as to what the least expensive full-range speakers are?

If you read online, you find of course many speakers that seem to measure from 20hz - 20Khz. How inexpensively can you do this solution, if you wanted a sub-free solution for music and home theater?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Just as the name implies, I'm curious as to what the least expensive full-range speakers are?

If you read online, you find of course many speakers that seem to measure from 20hz - 20Khz. How inexpensively can you do this solution, if you wanted a sub-free solution for music and home theater?
Perhaps close to 20Hz IN-ROOM response.

And are you talking about MSRP or "street" prices? For example, for ID companies, the MSRP and street price are the same. But for B&M companies, the street price is often significantly lower than the MSRP. So a $6,000 MSRP B&M speaker may only cost you $3,000.

Some of the speakers include the Philharmonic 3, RBH SX-8300, Golden Ear Triton One, Definitive Technology BP7000SC. Street prices on these may be close to $3,000-$3,500.

Depending on your room and preference, you may not need any subs with these speakers.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Just as the name implies, I'm curious as to what the least expensive full-range speakers are?

If you read online, you find of course many speakers that seem to measure from 20hz - 20Khz. How inexpensively can you do this solution, if you wanted a sub-free solution for music and home theater?
It depends how you define your terms. If you want truly high power from 20Hz to 20K with good frequency response it will cost you an awful lot of money, or be something you need to build yourself.

If you are content to have performance to the mid 20s with reasonable short term power then the Phil 3 are your best bet most likely. This speaker uses an 8" driver with an F3 of 21 Hz. It is mass TL loaded and will give you short term power in the bass at 170 watts.

The use of an 8" driver allows a passive crossover to give reasonable results as the crossover can be high enough.

If it is high power all the way to 20 Hz, and the use of speakers larger than 8" then you need to be looking at very high prices in deed. This type of design makes multiple amp and custom electronic crossovers mandatory in my view.

These speakers are far and few between and I suspect most, as mine are, are DIY designs and builds. I have costed my designs for commercial application, and for the front three the cost would be just north of $100,000 at least.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I have no idea how much shipping is, but I bet it's pretty damned expensive :D
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
if you wanted a sub-free solution for music and home theater?
Music is possible since you can get by with a speaker that can roll off with an F3 of 30Hz or so. In this case, judiciously spent $3000-5000 will get you there. Home theater on the other hand will require something that can do 100dB+ at 20Hz. That will be tough do achieve at a low cost.

If you want truly high power from 20Hz to 20K with good frequency response it will cost you an awful lot of money, or be something you need to build yourself.
This is pretty much my thoughts as well.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Music is possible since you can get by with a speaker that can roll off with an F3 of 30Hz or so. In this case, judiciously spent $3000-5000 will get you there. Home theater on the other hand will require something that can do 100dB+ at 20Hz. That will be tough do achieve at a low cost.
The JTRs I linked are definitely way out of my price range and are not what I would consider low cost but they can easily do 100+ dB at 20hz. If I lived near RMK in California I'd ask to watch a movie at his house :D
HT of the Month: Extraordinary Evolution - AVS Forum
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Home theater on the other hand will require something that can do 100dB+ at 20Hz.
Not everyone desires the same thing. So it just depends on preference.

For example, when I had dual Rythmik 15" subs, I actually preferred the 28Hz tuning, instead of 14Hz or 20Hz for both music and movies.
 
crossedover

crossedover

Audioholic Chief
As mentioned for the inexpensive side of full range speakers, you will need mathematics on your side. For this as a home theater solution I don't see cheap working. If it were 2ch I'd say yes. Consider a 2500 dollar budget with two subs and two bookshelves running as a stereo setup with crossover like the behinger dcx2496.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I agree with TLS Guy that the Philharmonic 3 might be the best choice with the lowest price. It can deliver an anechoic response of 25-20 kHZ ± 2 dB Philharmonic Audio. And that is a conservative rating. To get a full range speaker that delivers down to 20 Hz will cost quite a lot more.

Not included in the OP's question is how much amplifier power will be required, and at what cost?

The Philharmonic 3 (a 4 ohm speaker) isn't too difficult to drive, but I wonder if the Yamaha receiver the OP now has will be enough to drive it in that lowest octave. I've heard the Philharmonic 3 driven nicely by a stand-alone two channel amp capable of 125 wpc rated at 8 ohms. It also handles more power. Amps as high as 300 wpc rated at 8 ohms do very well with it.

Perhaps Dennis Murphy can comment on what he thinks the Philharmonic 3 requires as minimum power to perform well at its lowest octave.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
One thing I love about the RBH SX-8300 (anechoic F3 = 25Hz) is that the three built-in 8" subwoofers can be actively bi-amped if you wanted to for more bass output.

So a pair of SX-8300 towers equals six built-in 8" subs that you could actively bi-amp using LFE from your AVR/external amp.

For most rooms, I don't think you would need any extra subwoofers with the SX-8300 for both music and movies.
 
crossedover

crossedover

Audioholic Chief
One thing I love about the RBH SX-8300 (anechoic F3 = 25Hz) is that the three built-in 8" subwoofers can be actively bi-amped if you wanted to for more bass output.

So a pair of SX-8300 towers equals six built-in 8" subs that you could actively bi-amp using LFE from your AVR/external amp.

For most rooms, I don't think you would need any extra subwoofers with the SX-8300 for both music and movies.
So how much to active bi amp those subs?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
So how much to active bi amp those subs?
It depends on which amp you want. :D

The SX-8300 is rated for 100-400W.

The Dayton SA1000 1000W class A/B amp is $348 and can bi-amp both towers.

The Dayton SA230 230W class A/B amp is $199 and can bi-amp both towers.

The Crown XLS1000 350W class-D amp is $290.

LFE from the AVR to the Amp then to the lower binding posts of the towers (jumpers removed of course).
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
The JTRs I linked are definitely way out of my price range and are not what I would consider low cost but they can easily do 100+ dB at 20hz. If I lived near RMK in California I'd ask to watch a movie at his house :D
HT of the Month: Extraordinary Evolution - AVS Forum
Yup, the JTR are the only ones I can think of that will fit the OP's requirements. I read RMK's thread some time back, what a transition over the years. Interesting that he ended up replacing everything with 3x 215's across the front.

Not everyone desires the same thing. So it just depends on preference.

For example, when I had dual Rythmik 15" subs, I actually preferred the 28Hz tuning, instead of 14Hz or 20Hz for both music and movies.
That's a bit of a doozy. It introduces a variable (personal preference) that cannot be quantified. If one chooses to not play the lowest octaves with their subs (either due to incapable sub or intentional EQ like Audyssey LFC or in your case, listening preference), in the context of this thread, the requirements for full range mains can be correspondingly throttled back.

IMO, to make possible a sub free HT the mains must reproduce 20Hz as if a sub was in the mix. In the context of this thread, a 2.0 (or 5.0) setup incapable of producing 20Hz @ 100dB and <10% THD is not a equivalent substitute for a 2.1 (or 5.1) or 2.2 (or 5.2) that could.
 
T

twylight

Audioholic Intern
Measure your room so you know what your are trying to fix....as far as legit, flat speakers Philharmonic 3 (I own 2s) get it done for a reasonable price.

for music response, you are done with the Phils....for movies I can't live without a real sub (I have 6 heh)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I agree with TLS Guy that the Philharmonic 3 might be the best choice with the lowest price. It can deliver an anechoic response of 25-20 kHZ ± 2 dB Philharmonic Audio. And that is a conservative rating. To get a full range speaker that delivers down to 20 Hz will cost quite a lot more.

Not included in the OP's question is how much amplifier power will be required, and at what cost?

The Philharmonic 3 (a 4 ohm speaker) isn't too difficult to drive, but I wonder if the Yamaha receiver the OP now has will be enough to drive it in that lowest octave. I've heard the Philharmonic 3 driven nicely by a stand-alone two channel amp capable of 125 wpc rated at 8 ohms. It also handles more power. Amps as high as 300 wpc rated at 8 ohms do very well with it.

Perhaps Dennis Murphy can comment on what he thinks the Philharmonic 3 requires as minimum power to perform well at its lowest octave.
I just had an experience this week of why I built my speakers.

The concert of the Montreal Symphony Orchestra's concert to inaugurate the new four million dollar pipe organ is now running on Medici TV.

This organ is superb and unusual. From the console high in the organ, it is a mechanical tracker, that is to say the player operates the pipes entirely by mechanical action. There is also a movable console on stage that operates by electric action.



The organ was built by the renowned Canadian organ builder Casavant Freres.

Although this is streamed, the picture and audio are superb. This is the finest bass definition I have heard. I do hope this concert makes its way onto BD.

The performance of the Saint Saens organ symphony is the best I have heard. The opening work the famous J.S. Bach D minor toccata and Fugue really showed the precise articulation of this instrument.

There is no boom on this instrument, the bass is clean deep and highly defined. I could feel frequencies I could not hear. My body cavities vibrated frequently. The recording by the Canadian engineers is top rate.

You can rent this concert from Medici without a membership. This is an ultimate test of the bass definition of a speaker system. I just can't imagine any other speaker system pulling this off like I heard here this week.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I just had an experience this week of why I built my speakers.

The concert of the Montreal Symphony Orchestra's concert to inaugurate the new four million dollar pipe organ is now running on Medici TV.

This organ is superb and unusual. From the console high in the organ, it is a mechanical tracker, that is to say the player operates the pipes entirely by mechanical action. There is also a movable console on stage that operates by electric action.



The organ was built by the renowned Canadian organ builder Casavant Freres.

Although this is streamed, the picture and audio are superb. This is the finest bass definition I have heard. I do hope this concert makes its way onto BD.

The performance of the Saint Saens organ symphony is the best I have heard. The opening work the famous J.S. Bach D minor toccata and Fugue really showed the precise articulation of this instrument.

There is no boom on this instrument, the bass is clean deep and highly defined. I could feel frequencies I could not hear. My body cavities vibrated frequently. The recording by the Canadian engineers is top rate.

You can rent this concert from Medici without a membership. This is an ultimate test of the bass definition of a speaker system. I just can't imagine any other speaker system pulling this off like I heard here this week.
A large pipe organ is something that can push your speakers to the low limit. 16 to 8k Hz
 
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