The Denon AVR-X7200W AV Receiver is Upgradeable

[PENG]

Onkyo was the value rebel, which I don't feel that they are any more, while Denon is very strong in this area in my option

The only older Onkyo I have ever listened to was the 606. Base on that, and since I trust specs and best tests much more than reviewer and owner's subjective reviews, I would bet in terms of sound quality the only thing you will gain with the latest Denon's top 2 models vs the 50 lbs 804 are XT32 (DEQ comes with it) and SubEQHT. In pure direct any perceived audible difference would likely not be real. I think you are one of those who can afford to wait for even a year and then get the 7200 for 1K. That's what Cos paid for his new in the box 4520..

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I think you are one of those who can afford to wait for even a year and then get the 7200 for 1K. That's what Cos paid for his new in the box 4520..

I think I can afford to wait even longer. Like I said - most likely the 805 will stay till the day it goes bad

 

[surveyor]

Do the Audioholic staff have the 7200 in possession for review yet?

 

[3db]

You think it's pride getting in the way?

Not pride. No proof!! There have been no properly controlled tests that favor one system over another. All agruments have either been subjective or based on theory. Secondly, why would Yamaha pony up to Auddessy if it just increases their cost and/or reduces their profit margin based on subjective or theoretical speculation?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not pride. No proof!! There have been no properly controlled tests that favor one system over another. All agruments have either been subjective or based on theory. Secondly, why would Yamaha pony up to Auddessy if it just increases their cost and/or reduces their profit margin based on subjective or theoretical speculation?

No, PENG and I were saying what if it did NOT cost Yamaha any money to add Audyssey?

 

[3db]

No, PENG and I were saying what if it did NOT cost Yamaha any money to add Audyssey?

I wouldn't care one way or the other. Put it this way... If Yamaha adopted Auddessy and there was no cost increase and I were in the market again, I would pick up the Yamaha.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If Yamaha adopted Auddessy and there was no cost increase and I were in the market again, I would pick up the Yamaha.

That's exactly the point. If it did not cost Yamaha any extra money to adopt Audyssey, Yamaha could keep ALL of its current fans, PLUS also TAKE AWAY some Denon/Marantz fans who must have Audyssey, but may want to try Yamaha.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if my pre-pro or AVR is Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, etc. But if they all had the same Audyssey XT32 DEQ, I may buy Yamaha if the price is better.

IOW, many of us follow Audyssey XT32 DEQ.

If Denon were to drop Audyssey and Yamaha were to pick up Audyssey, we would get Yamaha.

 

[gene]

That's exactly the point. If it did not cost Yamaha any extra money to adopt Audyssey, Yamaha could keep ALL of its current fans, PLUS also TAKE AWAY some Denon/Marantz fans who must have Audyssey, but may want to try Yamaha.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if my pre-pro or AVR is Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, etc. But if they all had the same Audyssey XT32 DEQ, I may buy Yamaha if the price is better.

IOW, many of us follow Audyssey XT32 DEQ.

If Denon were to drop Audyssey and Yamaha were to pick up Audyssey, we would get Yamaha.

Yamaha has a lot invested in YPAO and it's getting better with each generation. Ironically I have Audyssey Pro in my theater room and YPAO in my family room and have both of them disabled. There is no substitute for great speakers properly placed into a room with good acoustics. Room correction really shouldn't be needed below the room transition frequency (200-300Hz). You're taking a gamble doing full bandwidth correction with any auto-EQ system, but if you prefer the EQ results, then more power to you!

 

[3db]

Yamaha has a lot invested in YPAO and it's getting better with each generation. Ironically I have Audyssey Pro in my theater room and YPAO in my family room and have both of them disabled. There is no substitute for great speakers properly placed into a room with good acoustics. Room correction really shouldn't be needed below the room transition frequency (200-300Hz). You're taking a gamble doing full bandwidth correction with any auto-EQ system, but if you prefer the EQ results, then more power to you!

Agreed. However many of us don't have the budget for speakers of that caliber or for the acoustic treatments assuming our spousal units would allow the treatments to begin with. Room Optimization facilities found on AVRs is the next best thing.

 

[PENG]

Agreed. However many of us don't have the budget for speakers of that caliber or for the acoustic treatments assuming our spousal units would allow the treatments to begin with. Room Optimization facilities found on AVRs is the next best thing.

"next best thing" is a good way to put it. The theory of REQ is sound and I hope years of research done by well qualified engineers, scientist with PhD degrees have not been in vain. Obviously it would be great if we all have concert hall kind of room acoustic environment in our home but few of us do, if any..

 

[RichB]

"next best thing" is a good way to put it. The theory of REQ is sound and I hope years of research done by well qualified engineers, scientist with PhD degrees have not been in vain. Obviously it would be great if we all have concert hall kind of room acoustic environment in our home but few of us do, if any..

REQ can certainly improve sound quality.
The AVR and processors I have owned all sound different when placed into Stereo mode (all seting flat). There is a noticeable change in soundstage and I always prefer "Pure/Direct".
It is not clear why this occurs, perhaps it is the DSPs, data clocking, jitter, I don't know.
There may be a cost and a benefit.

I spent a short time with my friends AVP and I never noticed a degradation, but then again, the menu structure is confusing so pilot error may be at fault

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Rich and ADTG may recall I have mentioned in the past that in my room Audyssey did do much or no difference for me aside from bass. It wasn't until recently when I finally spent time on plotting some frequency response graph using mindsp mic and REW that I saw (instead of heard) the benefits beyond the low frequencies that Gene talked about. From looking at Gene's graphs though, I can totally understand why he wouldn't bother with Audyssey as the graphs show it wasn't doing anything in his setup. So I guess one is interested in REQ, it is best to try it in one's own room, plot some graphs; and then make an informed decision. For those who simply trust their ears and would go with the sound they like regardless of accuracy, fidelity or transparency then there is no need to waste any time.

Everything aside though, as ADTG said many times before, DEQ and SubEQ could well be important factors to consider, for most people I guess.

 

[RichB]

I completely agree. I measured the room at a friends: AVP + Focal 1038be's + Parasound JC-1.
As usual, the high-frequency response measurements are all over the place for the high frequencies with small MIC adjustments.
The low frequency measures were stable and that is what I find as well in my home.
Also, a very minor difference in the high-end measurement is sound far more significant when listening.

In his room, there was a large bump around 100hz which Audyssey corrected. Now that I think about it, we did go Pure Direct to measure it.
After the holidays, maybe I can talk him into another visit to compare the HA-1 amp direct to AVP Pure Direct and with Audyssey.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yamaha has a lot invested in YPAO and it's getting better with each generation. Ironically I have Audyssey Pro in my theater room and YPAO in my family room and have both of them disabled. There is no substitute for great speakers properly placed into a room with good acoustics. Room correction really shouldn't be needed below the room transition frequency (200-300Hz). You're taking a gamble doing full bandwidth correction with any auto-EQ system, but if you prefer the EQ results, then more power to you!

I actually use Audyssey BYPASS L/R just to get the subwoofer EQ and Dynamic EQ. Thank you Denon for giving me that option.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I always prefer "Pure/Direct".

Are you sure you are ACTUALLY listening to PURE DIRECT in the END?

I mean the Marantz may be PD, but is the OPPO player actually PD?

Based on your description of what the OPPO player does outputting analog (better punchier bass, more dynamic sound), it may be the equivalent of Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

It seems my description of DEQ and your description of the OPPO sound is similar.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Everything aside though, as ADTG said many times before, DEQ and SubEQ could well be important factors to consider, for most people I guess.

Yeah, I've lost track of how many times I've said I would not do without DEQ & SubEQ.

 

[RichB]

I actually use Audyssey BYPASS L/R just to get the subwoofer EQ and Dynamic EQ. Thank you Denon for giving me that option.

They must have known something important

- Rich

 

[RichB]

Are you sure you are ACTUALLY listening to PURE DIRECT in the END?
I mean the Marantz may be PD, but is the OPPO player actually PD?

Yes, the USB DAC goes directly to the output stage with no possibility for bass-management.
For two-channel, I use the HA-1 direct to the amp which has no additional processing.

Based on your description of what the OPPO player does outputting analog (better punchier bass, more dynamic sound), it may be the equivalent of Audyssey Dynamic EQ. It seems my description of DEQ and your description of the OPPO sound is similar. [/

My room/speakers seems to have a gentle and mostly even bass boost, so I would not be surprised if we like the same thing

If you are even in my neighborhood, come on by for a demo. Bring music, I have plenty if wine since I make my own. The single-malts, I buy

- Rich