Ten Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

[Audioholics]

I’m not typically a doom and gloom kind of guy – really, I’m rather optimistic. But this pending format release/war is simply the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen in a long time. The hype machine is entirely enthusiast-created and since that day I realized Steve Jobs could sell a fart provided he sued a public Mac forum for talking about it before its release, I began to understand the power of public mania.

[Read the Editorial]

 

[BostonMark]

I love my SACD and DVD audio

because of the Surround Sound format. However, I find only minor improvement in stereo SACDs and a good CD played on a good system.

I'm already happy with my projector (an Optoma capable of 480p) and love it for DVD viewing. From what I've seen the minor improvement in blu-ray and HD DVD, I'd first have to upgrade my projector, then get an HDMI connection, then get a 1000 Blu ray player, then go out and get movies that are 25 a pop. An investment of an extra 2500 at least just ISN'T worth it to experience a mild improvement. My Mini disc player is already in storage.

Great article, makes me feel all the better for not at all feeling compelled to rush out to get the next minor improvement! Thanks Clint!

(don't know why I said Gene in original post, I think it's because he also writes informative articles, and I hadn't yet had my coffee!)

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Great article, makes me feel all the better for not at all feeling compelled to rush out to get the next minor improvement! Thanks Gene!

You mean Clint.

I said mostly agree. The part I'm not in full agreement is on point 8. I wouldn't group HDTV in the same category as 8-track, laserdisc, SACD, and DVD-Audio.

I know you said "possibly" regarding HDTV, but it's a given that all stations will eventually move to a higher resolution format. Right now, TWC offers dvd quality resolution on channels 99-149. They aren't HD, but digitally transmitted. In time, all channels will have this quality. It looks outstanding on a 480i CRT.

What I as a consumer am having issues with is what I'm being charged to rent a DVR, cable tv, and broadband internet access. I'm paying just under $80 a month (I know a lot of you are paying more). To me, this is getting a bit out of hand. $960 a year is a lot compared to what I could be paying for Yahoo DSL at under $20, and digital tv reception if I slap an antenna in the attic ($90 for a good antenna; free tv). $60 a month is a lot to pay for ESPN, Discovery HD, TLC, HGTV, and The Speed Channel. You can rent a lot of movies for $60 a month.

A few items I will not be purchasing anytime soon is a High Def DVD player (either format), any receivers with HDMI (version 1. who cares) pass through, an LCD HDTV until 1080p pricing come down to earth, or a $600 PS3. It's not that I don't want these items, it's that I can't justify the pricing on the hardware or software. I'm guessing a lot of others are in the same boat.

 

[patnshan]

I agree with Clint's assessment of the issue except for HDTV. I think that it is the future, and is here to stay. It is however, way too expensive. That is because of the monopoly we call Time Warner Cable and others like them.

I currently have analog cable and no boxes. I have 5 TV's, soon to be 6 with my projector. That would be $25/month, soon to be $30/month just for the boxes!!!!! I would buy them if the monopoly would let me. That is absolutely crazy. I pay around $90 for roadrunner and basic analog cable!!! I will reluctantly add one HD box for $8/month and the HD package for another $8/month when I get the projector so that I can join the HD crowd. I will keep analog on the other TV's as long as I can.

I plan to get a 720p projector, as I see no difference in PQ with the twice priced 1080p units. I agree that the difference of 480i to 720p is astonishing, which makes it worthwhile. It is just not worth $4500 to buy a 60 inch LCD when I can have a 120 inch screen 720p for $2000.

I will not buy either HD format player until Oppo or somebody else starts making them for $150 or they make players that can play DVD's as well, or they force me to buy one by making new DVD's only available in the HD formats. Otherwise, forget it.

Pat

 

[j_garcia]

I agree with almost all of what was said. I'm a fan of SACD and DVD-A, which means the new players are not attractive to me. I'm interested in audio, not so much high quality video, so the higher resolution also isn't a big benefit to me either. I completely agree that the hires sound formats are an opportunity missed by the industry and these two new formats will likely go down the same path. The lack of titles is also a serious drawback IMO.

I disagree somewhat about the PS3 - that will definitely give Sony some good penetration with BR, however I agree that the people buying them will not be buying them for movie watching (like me).

 

[Audioholics]

I said mostly agree. The part I'm not in full agreement is on point 8. I wouldn't group HDTV in the same category as 8-track, laserdisc, SACD, and DVD-Audio.

Understandable - what I meant was the issue with older, analogue HDTV sets not being HDCP-compliant - potentially rendering the early-adopters out in the cold should they mandate all-HDCP broadcasts or HDMI-only... I added a slight clarification...

 

[clayman88]

Awesome write-up, Clint. I pretty much agreed with it all except for part of point #3. While I agree that technology and more storage is NOT enough to make HD-DVD/Blu-Ray successfull, I do believe it has ALOT more to offer in the way of quality.

What do the new high definition DVD formats offer consumers over DVD? Technology and more storage.

I think most of the people who are interested in buying a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player are wanting high quality movie experience in 720p or 1080i/p.

I enjoyed the article though.

 

[Tsunamii]

Great Read. I agree with all of it!!!

 

[j_garcia]

I think most of the people who are interested in buying a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player are wanting high quality movie experience in 720p or 1080i/p.

I'd say though, that they are in a similar boat as the hires audio formats - the people who are interested are a limited group in the mid and higher end market. You have a small number who will move to it for bragging rights, some just because it is the latest and greatest, and those who are tweakers who are always looking to squeeze every last bit out of their gear This is not representative of the mass market public though.

 

[hopjohn]

I'd like to add to one of the points that was touched on by Clint but not in quite the same vein as I perceive it. Average Joes who are watching DVDs on a HD set and have seen at least some HDTV be it in store or from over the air are probably not going to truly understand the improvement of 1080p. To them HD is HD, they don't get that ED isn't HD and that there are different flavors of HD that are not of equal quality. The've just upgraded there TV to an HDTV and are elated with the improvements that their Widescreen HDTV gave them with their progressive DVD player and the 50 DVDs they already own, (NO MORE BLACK BARS !!!). They feel so good about their upgrades.

Now you're asking them to upgrade their TV again! to get the full potential of 1080p, buy another DVD player again after they just upgraded to their new $200 progressive player, upgrade their new shiny $600 7.1 receiver again! to get HD Surround, and all the while insinuate that their recent upgrades are obsolete.

I don't know that HD DVD will fail, but agree that it will be a niche market for quite a while. Its saving grace, if any, will be new display technologies that provide the advantages of plasmas thin wall frame but with mind blowing resolution.

Anyone want to editorialize UlrtraHDTV's future?

 

[ironlung]

Clint you were just teasing me with your silence on my thread predicting the death of the HD disc formats before they arrived. You had this beauty brewing all along and coudn't even PM.


I want to know where all you guys were over there!?!

I guess I don't have good street cred like the De man. Just look at all thoes green chicklets!

 

[~JC~]

I agree, and I think #8 pretty much sums it up. I suspect I will catch alot of flak for this, but after having seen 720p/1080i images on a DLP projector, the picture is better than at the theater. It is clearer than hollywood intended. How much clearer does it need to be? I'm approaching all of the clarity I need. Life does better if you leave just a few edges fuzzyy.

 

[Audioholics]

I want to know where all you guys were over there!?!

Hey, if it makes you feel any better I did check my final list against your thread before publishing - I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Great minds think alike, etc...

 

[goodman]

Understandable - what I meant was the issue with older, analogue HDTV sets not being HDCP-compliant - potentially rendering the early-adopters out in the cold should they mandate all-HDCP broadcasts or HDMI-only... I added a slight clarification...

There are 7 or 8 million of us early adopters who have HDTVs with analog inputs only. We will all be left out in the cold if only HDCP compliant digital connections are allowed to transmit any resolution higher than 420p. We early adopters will then shun the new formats and Clint will be proven right.
But, what if the hardware and software manufacturers decided to allow 720p or 1080i resolution to pass through a component (analog) connection? Then, we 7 million early adopters would embrace the new formats and form the nucleus of their support.

 

[ivseenbetter]

I agree whole-heartedly with this write up and I ended up agreeing with Ironlung in his thread that was similar to this. I still think HD Broadcast is going to happen and it is going to be great. I think there are legitimate reasons why it is taking so long for that to happen when comparing to how fast society can become hooked on a new magnetic media formats like CD and DVD.

 

[BTT917]

A quick comment:

While I think that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were rushed to market and think having two formats is rediculous, I don't think they have already failed. First, the studios want to replace standard DVD due to its easily crackable encryption. So they have an interest in seeing these formats survive and they will do what they can to ensure HD-DVD's and/or BD's survival. Also, I predict first-teir manufacturers will stop producing top level standard DVD players (Pioneer Elite, Denon 5### & 3###, Sony ES, etc.) in the near term, and all SD DVD players in the next few years as the analog phase-out takes effect, thereby forcing high-def DVD players into homes. So, I think high def will survive by "defult". I also think high-def VOD will be a rising force, but there will always be a market for owning a physical disc.

 

[kdiddy]

I tend to agree with most of what has been stated. Personally, I feel that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are vast improvment over DVD, especially on larger displays. Will the average consumer see as much of a difference? That I don't know. I agree that the PS3 will not be Sony's saving grace, but I feel that it will have as positive impact as long as they get it right. I am disappointed with both formats right now. The first wave of products just aren't delivering what we have been promised. I, for one, will not be buyng anything for a while, not unless it's HDMI 1.3 (that goes for TV's, receivers, and new HD format players).

 

[Audioholics]

Also, I predict first-teir manufacturers will stop producing top level standard DVD players (Pioneer Elite, Denon 5### & 3###, Sony ES, etc.) in the near term, and all SD DVD players in the next few years as the analog phase-out takes effect, thereby forcing high-def DVD players into homes. So, I think high def will survive by "defult". I also think high-def VOD will be a rising force, but there will always be a market for owning a physical disc.

That would be one way to make sure the new formats survive, but it's not happening. It's not even on the horizon to happen.

 

[ironlung]

Hey, if it makes you feel any better I did check my final list against your thread before publishing - I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Great minds think alike, etc...

Where should I forward my resume. Pessimistic 30 year old tool and die maker that would love to review A/V gadgets and exit the daily grind.

Actually it does make me feel better Your not giving me the whitewash are you??

 

[KC23]

I agree, and I think #8 pretty much sums it up. I suspect I will catch alot of flak for this, but after having seen 720p/1080i images on a DLP projector, the picture is better than at the theater. It is clearer than hollywood intended. How much clearer does it need to be? I'm approaching all of the clarity I need. Life does better if you leave just a few edges fuzzyy.

Bingo.

There is just not enough "wow" in the difference to replace my DVD collection. My money is going to audio because there is definately much more "wow" to be had with my limited amount of money to spend on such things.

Watching the top executives blunder over their greed reminds me why I don't watch as much sports as I used to.

Greed is just ugly no matter what format it is in.