SVS AS-EQ1 vs Velo SMS-1

[Franin]

Im about to venture in one of these products, one of the the Velo SMS-1(ive had before but would not mind giving it another go). Which would be the better buy being that I use my sub 100% for HT.

Thank you.

 

[mike c]

given that you have two subs in two different locations, i'd go for the EQ1 (though i'm biased for SVS)

 

[Franin]

Thanks for that. I'm a bit worried in getting it and finding there is only a slight improvement. Lot of money for slight improvement.

 

[Warpdrv]

The SMS-1 is a great unit, but really only designed for a single sub though it has outputs for more, it can only work the combined signal of the subs at the single location, where the SVS unit will EQ for a large area and work with both subs individually, it is the ideal way to go, but as you stated pretty expensive.

Another method would be to get a Behringer DCX 2496, which will take more effort to setup to be certain but it will allow the hookup of a single input with 6 outputs for up to 6 subs and you can EQ & add delay them each individually. As stated this will be more difficult to get setup, but once you do it is a set it and forget it device. I got mine off ebay at a pretty good price.

Also, the 2496 also works straight with XLR cables as well, which is a nice feature for you Franin.

 

[Franin]

The SMS-1 is a great unit, but really only designed for a single sub though it has outputs for more, it can only work the combined signal of the subs at the single location, where the SVS unit will EQ for a large area and work with both subs individually, it is the ideal way to go, but as you stated pretty expensive.

Another method would be to get a Behringer DCX 2496, which will take more effort to setup to be certain but it will allow the hookup of a single input with 6 outputs for up to 6 subs and you can EQ & add delay them each individually. As stated this will be more difficult to get setup, but once you do it is a set it and forget it device. I got mine off ebay at a pretty good price.

Also, the 2496 also works straight with XLR cables as well, which is a nice feature for you Franin.

Thanks Warpdrv im going to look into that. Stay tuned though I might need your help The thing is I don't want to spend too much money for a slight improvement and one of the guys in the other forum said because I have room treatments and the two subs I might not even notice any improvement with the Audyssey Sub eq.

 

[Franin]

With the Velo SMS-1 I can always run the Subs Master and Slave, whats your thoughts on that?

 

[Franin]

The Behringer DCX 2496 looks hard. Just by looking at it I can see its going to be difficult.

 

[Warpdrv]

With the Velo SMS-1 I can always run the Subs Master and Slave, whats your thoughts on that?

Its still won't have the same effect as EQing and separately distancing each sub... The JL's only have a single point eq as you know, and although your running them as master/slave its just basically an easy way to send signal to each, and get that single point EQ in room with ARO. Are you running Audyssey with your Denon...? Your subs are pretty close together, and you could try EQing them as 1 with the SMS-1, but it generally limits the EQ'd area to a small spot in room, making for good response in the key position and not as good in the other seating areas. Do you generally have alot of people listening or watching movies with your, or just your wife.

The Behringer DCX 2496 looks hard. Just by looking at it I can see its going to be difficult.

Being in Perth, I assume you have no-one that can help you do inroom sweeps with REW and a laptop.

There is no question - the DCX isn't just a auto setup device, but the benefits outway the drawbacks for sure. Being able to tweek each sub for optimum results is the key.

I have a feeling that you may be better off going with the SVS unit if your looking for ease of setup. But if your looking to go the extra mile - learning how to run REW is a good education.


I guess it comes down to how hard you want this to be... Pay for Plug and Play, or save some money and work a bit harder.

 

[rmk]

Hi Frank,
I have had both the SMS-1 and the ASEQ-1 in my room and having seen your room and since your subs the same model and in relatively close proximity, I would say any noticeable benefits of the AS-EQ-1 (SubEQ) would be slight.

With the AS-EQ1 it is a relatively easy process to perform the measurements however the methodology and actual results are hidden by Audyssey. The Before and After graphs they produce are low resolution and the all important After is theoretical as opposed to an actual post EQ in room response graph.

What I really like about the SMS-1 and the main reason I have and likely will be keeping the unit is the real time display of the Low Frequencies at any location in your room. For me, actually seeing the room response in real time is very informative and educational even if the resolution of those graphs is also lower than a good RTA software would produce. The instant feedback to any changes made helps me understand my room and treatments much better than a blind automated process like Audyssey.

Audyssey based products are designed for plug and play and for people adopting difficult spaces to multichannel audio. The choices they make can sound good to some and poor to others. Subjectivly speaking, I have experienced both good and poor results using Audyssey and I have the most sophisticated version (Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro Kit).

I believe we will see some big improvements in the Auto EQ technologies in the not too distant future but for now, I like the use characteristics and the learning potential of the SMS-1. YMMV

 

[Warpdrv]

I agree with RMK, the SMS is a great tool to see changes in real time...
move the mic a little bit and the onscreen response can change dramatically.

I assume that the chances of you moving your subs to a different location is pretty much out of the question, your room looks pretty tight and you seem to like the look of how you have things placed right now, as do I... Looks Killer.

What is it about your bass repsonse that you are not liking... ?

 

[Franin]

I agree with RMK, the SMS is a great tool to see changes in real time...
move the mic a little bit and the onscreen response can change dramatically.

I assume that the chances of you moving your subs to a different location is pretty much out of the question, your room looks pretty tight and you seem to like the look of how you have things placed right now, as do I... Looks Killer.

What is it about your bass repsonse that you are not liking... ?

Actually ever since I posted 2 fathoms for a Velo I decided to re do Ausyssey but this time instead of having 2 subs act as one (7.1 I was told to go that way by my HAA calibrator) I decided to go 7.2 and have it on my Denon as 2 mix. Well I can say I was thorougly impressed distances were spot on and the real deep feel it in your face was there and extremeley tight and smooth. ( you guys are to be much thanked for not letting me swap those subs for one Velo or that would of been a mistake I would of paid dearly).

Now the reason for the SVS or SMS is that you read about members saying how good there bass sounds and I'm thinking can mine be better? I guess it's one of those things. I'm thinking about the SMS more because as you say it's a realtime graph it shows you and for me it's cheaper than buying the audyssey. I can always test to see what the results audyssey has given me and if it can be improved i run the auto eq on top.

Cheers

 

[Franin]

Hi Frank,
I have had both the SMS-1 and the ASEQ-1 in my room and having seen your room and since your subs the same model and in relatively close proximity, I would say any noticeable benefits of the AS-EQ-1 (SubEQ) would be slight.

With the AS-EQ1 it is a relatively easy process to perform the measurements however the methodology and actual results are hidden by Audyssey. The Before and After graphs they produce are low resolution and the all important After is theoretical as opposed to an actual post EQ in room response graph.

What I really like about the SMS-1 and the main reason I have and likely will be keeping the unit is the real time display of the Low Frequencies at any location in your room. For me, actually seeing the room response in real time is very informative and educational even if the resolution of those graphs is also lower than a good RTA software would produce. The instant feedback to any changes made helps me understand my room and treatments much better than a blind automated process like Audyssey.

Audyssey based products are designed for plug and play and for people adopting difficult spaces to multichannel audio. The choices they make can sound good to some and poor to others. Subjectivly speaking, I have experienced both good and poor results using Audyssey and I have the most sophisticated version (Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro Kit).

I believe we will see some big improvements in the Auto EQ technologies in the not too distant future but for now, I like the use characteristics and the learning potential of the SMS-1. YMMV

Thank you rmk I think I might go for the velo SMS -1 to see what result audyssey has given me. I guess it's a good tool to have around if any changes need to me made.

 

[Franin]

I was told this unit rolls off at 20hz is that correct?
If I get two one for each unit and run auto eq on both what kind of results will the SMS-1 be aiming for?

Cheers

 

[rmk]

I was told this unit rolls off at 20hz is that correct?
If I get two one for each unit and run auto eq on both what kind of results will the SMS-1 be aiming for?

Cheers

Not true, the current units have a high pass that can be set (I think down to 10Hz) or defeated altogether. For your Fathoms I'd set it @17hz.

I'd just get one unit to start and run a cable (balanced would be good) to your Master Fathom or one cable to each if dual Masters. Then EQ the summed response of the pair. The Auto EQ on the SMS-1 isn't the best option but you can start there just as a learning expierence. The best way to get started is to download the SMS-1 User Guide from the Outlaw Audio website. It really breaks it down to what you need to know to get started and then everything else.

One Call has them for $399 US with free shipping CONUS but I imagine they will sell Internationally too.

 

[Franin]

Not true, the current units have a high pass that can be set (I think down to 10Hz) or defeated altogether. For your Fathoms I'd set it @17hz.

I'd just get one unit to start and run a cable (balanced would be good) to your Master Fathom or one cable to each if dual Masters. Then EQ the summed response of the pair. The Auto EQ on the SMS-1 isn't the best option but you can start there just as a learning expierence. The best way to get started is to download the SMS-1 User Guide from the Outlaw Audio website. It really breaks it down to what you need to know to get started and then everything else.

One Call has them for $399 US with free shipping CONUS but I imagine they will sell Internationally too.

Thanks for that rmk I just found the price for one SMS-1 over here in Australia is $999 +.
Will check it tonight and hopefully they can ship overseas

btw thanks to all who replied for your help, you guys are great

 

[Warpdrv]

The JL's already have their built in highpass limiters, therfore you should set the highpass filter on the SMS to as low as it will go so there isn't any overlapping of filters.

Earlier on, there was measurement issues with the SMS where it would roll off eariler then they anticipated, but since then they changed the firmware on the unit to eliminate that problem. Here is a thread with the info on the firmware change... http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37520

Franin, If you find that your going to be paying alot for an SMS, let me know. I have 2 of them and will be selling one off and I can work with you on the transaction with shipping to you... The one Im selling is brand new and never used, its still in the box.

 

[rmk]

The JL's already have their built in highpass limiters, therfore you should set the highpass filter on the SMS to as low as it will go so there isn't any overlapping of filters.

Earlier on, there was measurement issues with the SMS where it would roll off eariler then they anticipated, but since then they changed the firmware on the unit to eliminate that problem. Here is a thread with the info on the firmware change... http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37520

Franin, If you find that your going to be paying a lot for an SMS, let me know. I have 2 of them and will be selling one off and I can work with you on the transaction with shipping to you... The one Im selling is brand new and never used, its still in the box.

The Low Pass can also be turned off and that would be preferable to setting the LP to 5hz. I stand by my 17hz recommendation as even with the limiters present I was able to get my Fathoms to distort with certain material. The Fathoms FR rolls off very steeply below 20hz so think of it as a safety net as opposed to cascading filters.

 

[Franin]

The JL's already have their built in highpass limiters, therfore you should set the highpass filter on the SMS to as low as it will go so there isn't any overlapping of filters.

Earlier on, there was measurement issues with the SMS where it would roll off eariler then they anticipated, but since then they changed the firmware on the unit to eliminate that problem. Here is a thread with the info on the firmware change... http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37520

Franin, If you find that your going to be paying alot for an SMS, let me know. I have 2 of them and will be selling one off and I can work with you on the transaction with shipping to you... The one Im selling is brand new and never used, its still in the box.

Oh that would be great Im intrested as $999AU is simply ridiculous. Ive finally registered with Paypay so thats a plus.

 

[Warpdrv]

The Low Pass can also be turned off and that would be preferable to setting the LP to 5hz. I stand by my 17hz recommendation as even with the limiters present I was able to get my Fathoms to distort with certain material. The Fathoms FR rolls off very steeply below 20hz so think of it as a safety net as opposed to cascading filters.

I don't recall where you can turn off the HIGH PASS filter on the SMS-1, I just set it for 5 hz like you had mentioned....

I think the reason you got the JL's to hit their limiters is because you are a RETARD - Like me... or should I say BASS WHORE !!!!
Probably just asking more from them then they could deliver for your size room... hehheheh I know you are not hurtin for bass now - totally awesome with the SPUDS !!! Have you been watching the DIY thread - Danley is shipping mini SPUD KITS for people that want put it together themselves... kinda cool...

I was pushing things way to far with what I wanted for bass output - now that I have the LMS's I have absolutely no complaints... I'm waiting for the 3rd one to show up - I have 2 older models running with a pair of 15" TC drivers.... the new 2009 18" LMS is on preorder, but have just been delayed another month.... supposed to be late december - or they will be called the 2010 models... hhehhe

 

[rmk]

I don't recall where you can turn off the HIGH PASS filter on the SMS-1, I just set it for 5 hz like you had mentioned....

I think the reason you got the JL's to hit their limiters is because you are a RETARD - Like me... or should I say BASS WHORE !!!!
Probably just asking more from them then they could deliver for your size room... hehheheh I know you are not hurtin for bass now - totally awesome with the SPUDS !!! Have you been watching the DIY thread - Danley is shipping mini SPUD KITS for people that want put it together themselves... kinda cool...

I was pushing things way to far with what I wanted for bass output - now that I have the LMS's I have absolutely no complaints... I'm waiting for the 3rd one to show up - I have 2 older models running with a pair of 15" TC drivers.... the new 2009 18" LMS is on preorder, but have just been delayed another month.... supposed to be late december - or they will be called the 2010 models... hhehhe

Honestly, I was surprised that quad Fathoms could be over driven with certain material (Pulse, computer room scene). I level match my subs and listen to most movies at 5-12db under reference (although an occasional run @ reference level is fun). My room is approx 3600cf enclosed space so this should not be a problem. A pair of PB13's had the same (actually worse) problem in my room so I guess it is just finding the right tool for the job. I'm there now and I imagine you are too .

The new Uber Spud looks interesting but it's not for me. I just do not need nor want more bass.