Surround speakers

[jordan456789]

I have a 7.1 reciever and a new paridigmn sub with JBL front tower speakers. My surround speakers are old and not very good and in need of replacement. On a budget what would you recomend? I have heard of DIY and was wondering where i would get the speakers if i decided to go this route. Thanks in advance.

 

[lsiberian]

I have a 7.1 reciever and a new paridigmn sub with JBL front tower speakers. My surround speakers are old and not very good and in need of replacement. On a budget what would you recomend? I have heard of DIY and was wondering where i would get the speakers if i decided to go this route. Thanks in advance.

DIY for surrounds is probably tough to pull off. I prefer surrounds that are small and capable of doing frequencies above 120 with no issues. Surrounds aren't really that vital IMO. For sonic quality so you could probably get away with a simple tweeter and driver, design. However the size would be prohibitive for some folks.

I suggest you mimmick the design of the sealed Recession Buster Kit. Use 13 ply birch and make sure to put a little stuffing in there along with a few braces. I dont' suggest you go all out with constraint layers, rockwool(etc). Surround sound really doesn't need that.

You can find the drivers off ebay. And just order the premium crossover which happens to be in stock. Construct the cabinets out of 13ply it easier to deal with than MDF, more rigid, and lighter.

 

[jordan456789]

DIY for surrounds is probably tough to pull off. I prefer surrounds that are small and capable of doing frequencies above 120 with no issues. Surrounds aren't really that vital IMO. For sonic quality so you could probably get away with a simple tweeter and driver, design. However the size would be prohibitive for some folks.

I suggest you mimmick the design of the sealed Recession Buster Kit. Use 13 ply birch and make sure to put a little stuffing in there along with a few braces. I dont' suggest you go all out with constraint layers, rockwool(etc). Surround sound really doesn't need that.

You can find the drivers off ebay. And just order the premium crossover which happens to be in stock. Construct the cabinets out of 13ply it easier to deal with than MDF, more rigid, and lighter.

Thanks for your reply. I am new and usually just go to the electronics store and pick up speakers so i don't know a lot. Which drivers should i target and where would i get a crossovers? I could also use a new center channel speaker as well.

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks for your reply. I am new and usually just go to the electronics store and pick up speakers so i don't know a lot. Which drivers should i target and where would i get a crossovers? I could also use a new center channel speaker as well.

I suggest you order parts from madisound or parts-express. They both have a great selection. For a center speaker I suggest you build a Loki Coaxial speaker.

 

[jordan456789]

So i was thinking about surround speakers but realized i probably should pick some up if i need them. I origionally got a theater in a box and replaced my front two speakers and sub. I assume i would get more bang by replacing the center channel rather than the surround since that is where more sound comes from. With the center channel would i get more bang for my $ with a DIY? Where would i even start to design a center channel speaker?

 

[j_garcia]

If you haven't designed a speaker before, it isn't as simple as slapping some drivers in a box with a random crossover if you want quality sound. If you are able to build your own boxes, then I would suggest picking up an already designed kit and build the boxes.

 

[lsiberian]

If you haven't designed a speaker before, it isn't as simple as slapping some drivers in a box with a random crossover if you want quality sound. If you are able to build your own boxes, then I would suggest picking up an already designed kit and build the boxes.

It's not as complex as it seems, but I do second this suggestion. However many designs just aren't hi-fi quality in construction. Since the materials are the cheap part one would be best to build a speaker system right.

The Loki system already has a crossover.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_40_402_275&products_id=1696

I suggest you modify the design to allow 4" rock wool on the rear wall. And 2" rock wool on the side and top walls. As well as dense oak bracing. If it's ported than only dampen half the internal surface and use 2" rock wool. Still brace it.

I do suggest a sealed system for a loudspeaker. Ported are generally best for subs where resonances are more easily controlled.

 

[jordan456789]

Thanks for the replies. I was looking at learning to build speakers from scratch. Where would be a good spot to educate myself for a beginner

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks for the replies. I was looking at learning to build speakers from scratch. Where would be a good spot to educate myself for a beginner

A study of resonances is probably good. A thorough study will likely prevent you from making the common mistakes of many builders. Even some of the great designers have fairly resonant cabinets.

If you aren't good building things then that would be a good place to look too. Remember to educate yourself on tool safety. Don't be an idiot. Safety comes first. If you can't build it safely than pay someone else(buy it)

Sadly people don't take this approach to cars which is the most dangerous power tool we use.

 

[Guiria]

Thanks for the replies. I was looking at learning to build speakers from scratch. Where would be a good spot to educate myself for a beginner

I would suggest picking up a book or two like Loudspeakers Design Cookbook or Speaker Building 201.

Also spend time looking through build threads here, zaphaudio.com, partsexpress.com, hometheatershack.com and htguide.com. All have a variety of designs and tons of info that will help you learn about DIY speaker building.

 

[Guiria]

So i was thinking about surround speakers but realized i probably should pick some up if i need them. I origionally got a theater in a box and replaced my front two speakers and sub. I assume i would get more bang by replacing the center channel rather than the surround since that is where more sound comes from. With the center channel would i get more bang for my $ with a DIY? Where would i even start to design a center channel speaker?

I agree with you, the next best step would be the center channel. What is your budget? How big is your room? What frequency do you crossover your mains to your sub?

I've ordered parts for this design of a center channel, it won't be built for about another month though so I can't tell you how it sounds. I am excited about it though.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=22393

There are also smaller and less expensive designs at htguide.com

Supposedly Zaph Audio's ZDT3C center channel is a good one
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

Also the Loki kit that Isibirian recommended would be an excellent choice for a beginner project. I would recommend using the suggested ported dimensions on the Loki page.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1696

I bring these builds up because they are all designs I debated over before making my decision on what to build.

Odds are if you are doing a well regarded, documented DIY design it will end up sounding very good. Especially in comparison to a HTIB center channel

Just try something and enjoy it.

 

[jordan456789]

I agree with you, the next best step would be the center channel. What is your budget? How big is your room? What frequency do you crossover your mains to your sub?

I've ordered parts for this design of a center channel, it won't be built for about another month though so I can't tell you how it sounds. I am excited about it though.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=22393

There are also smaller and less expensive designs at htguide.com

Supposedly Zaph Audio's ZDT3C center channel is a good one
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

Also the Loki kit that Isibirian recommended would be an excellent choice for a beginner project. I would recommend using the suggested ported dimensions on the Loki page.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1696

I bring these builds up because they are all designs I debated over before making my decision on what to build.

Odds are if you are doing a well regarded, documented DIY design it will end up sounding very good. Especially in comparison to a HTIB center channel

Just try something and enjoy it.

My room is 20x20 and the frequency cutoff is at 70 HZ. I was hoping to get it done for between 200-300

 

[jordan456789]

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8525
What are your thoughts on these? As for a center channel would i look to get two midrange speakers and tweeters along with crossovers? I assume the goal should to make sure the sensitivity matches between speakers, covers all frequency ranges while providing the proper power.

 

[Guiria]

My room is 20x20 and the frequency cutoff is at 70 HZ. I was hoping to get it done for between 200-300

How loud to you typically listen? Is your room open to other parts of the house? I think the Loki kit would be an excellent center channel, especially if this is your first build. I would be cautious in trying to pull something off like a 3-way center. Of course if you've got the woodworking skills, and are familiar with crossover design and assembly then perhaps a 3-way wouldn't be such a big deal.

I don't pick out my own drivers and design my own crossovers because without the right software and measuring equipment you are pretty much making guesses as to how your drivers will actually perform.

I'll get there someday, but for now there are plenty of documented builds out there to keep me busy

 

[lsiberian]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=535920&postcount=6

That is probably one of the best center channel speakers on the planet. The builder has higher standards than most folks here.

If you go that design you will be blown away.

 

[Guiria]

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8525
What are your thoughts on these? As for a center channel would i look to get two midrange speakers and tweeters along with crossovers? I assume the goal should to make sure the sensitivity matches between speakers, covers all frequency ranges while providing the proper power.

I think Isiberian has built these, perhaps he'll chime in soon with his impressions. As for a center channel you really only need one bookshelf speaker built to specs on the kit page. You would still want to place it vertically instead of laying it down horizontally like you typically see with center channels. Of course the Loki kit will give you better performance than the RB kits but it is substantially more money. You can lay the loki box on its side and it won't affect performance since the tweeter is mounted in the center of the woofer cone.

 

[Guiria]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=535920&postcount=6

That is probably one of the best center channel speakers on the planet. The builder has higher standards than most folks here.

If you go that design you will be blown away.

I'll agree about the design being excellent but I would say it is atleast double the OP's max budget ($300.00). You have two loki drivers + assembled crossover + active crossover circuit + external amplification + box and finish materials. The OP is upgrading speakers from a HTIB, chances are his receiver does not have pre-amp outputs so that makes another $350.00 at a minimum just so he can connect his amp to power his new, totally awesome center channel.

A basic Loki kit is not the same as a dual driver TL enclosure. The TL enclosure is so sweet because the second driver is used as a fill driver which allows the primary driver with the tweeter connected to always operate within its limits keeping the waveguide effect for the tweeter performing as it should.

I still think the Loki kit is an excellent place to start, but don't think a single loki driver in a ported box will give you the performance that TLS_Guy's custom Loki TL center will, just ain't gonna happen

 

[jordan456789]

I'll agree about the design being excellent but I would say it is atleast double the OP's max budget ($300.00). You have two loki drivers + assembled crossover + active crossover circuit + external amplification + box and finish materials. The OP is upgrading speakers from a HTIB, chances are his receiver does not have pre-amp outputs so that makes another $350.00 at a minimum just so he can connect his amp to power his new, totally awesome center channel.

A basic Loki kit is not the same as a dual driver TL enclosure. The TL enclosure is so sweet because the second driver is used as a fill driver which allows the primary driver with the tweeter connected to always operate within its limits keeping the waveguide effect for the tweeter performing as it should.

I still think the Loki kit is an excellent place to start, but don't think a single loki driver in a ported box will give you the performance that TLS_Guy's custom Loki TL center will, just ain't gonna happen

I don't think my amp has the pre-amp outputs so i assume this wouldn't work. Are there any other center setups you would recomend? Thanks for the help.

 

[lsiberian]

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8525
What are your thoughts on these? As for a center channel would i look to get two midrange speakers and tweeters along with crossovers? I assume the goal should to make sure the sensitivity matches between speakers, covers all frequency ranges while providing the proper power.

I think they do a great job. You will want to seal these IMO. I've tried them both ways and sealed sounds bit better.

I use 3 of those for my front setup. They will sell you 3 actually if you ask.

If you want to do the center and need an extra Vifa. I have a spare. I can send it to you. If you decide to go that route. No need for you to get 2 of em just for 1 driver.

I'll be building TMMs out of these. I'm gonna use the existing crossover and eq where need be.

The proper box is 0.5 cu ft for an mtm design. Depending on how much dampenign and whether you want to use a contraint layer design I can give you dimensions.

 

[lsiberian]

I'll agree about the design being excellent but I would say it is atleast double the OP's max budget ($300.00). You have two loki drivers + assembled crossover + active crossover circuit + external amplification + box and finish materials. The OP is upgrading speakers from a HTIB, chances are his receiver does not have pre-amp outputs so that makes another $350.00 at a minimum just so he can connect his amp to power his new, totally awesome center channel.

A basic Loki kit is not the same as a dual driver TL enclosure. The TL enclosure is so sweet because the second driver is used as a fill driver which allows the primary driver with the tweeter connected to always operate within its limits keeping the waveguide effect for the tweeter performing as it should.

I still think the Loki kit is an excellent place to start, but don't think a single loki driver in a ported box will give you the performance that TLS_Guy's custom Loki TL center will, just ain't gonna happen

You could use one driver in the design with the passive crossover from the kit. Few people really need the second driver. But it would be out of budget in the end.

I like the RB Kit center idea. All he needs is to buy one kit and I'll mail him the extra driver I have. I know MTMs aren't ideal, but for the price he could have a very nice speaker.