Surround speaker placement

[vividere]

In the past my system was a 5.0 setup, using my old 10" main speakers as the surrounds. I had them mounted facing straight forward on top of book cases in the corners of the room. When searching for information on speaker placement I found more people suggesting they be turned 90 degrees, i.e. facing straight towards the listener(s) or possibly facing slighting forward like the Alan Loftt's diagram shows which is on here and on the Axiom site. I decided that facing foward didn't make much sense and that they were too high, or at least based on the 1-2' above the ear suggestion I saw a lot of places.

As a result I bought some new BIC DV62si speakers for my new surrounds and thought to put them on the bookshelf at the 1-2' height. I have turned the bookshelves so they are kitty korner in the corners and now I can pretty much turn the bookshelf speakers as I wish to get the best angle, still assuming 90-110 degrees is best.

Making an assumption what I have done above is correct, I thought I would take the old mains which were being used as the surrounds to now become surround BACK speakers. With the current setup the couch is up against the back wall. Above the couch is a piano window which makes mounting above the couch hard, especially since they are so big. I had the idea instead to simply put them on the floor behind the couch, moving the couch out just a little to accomodate them. Then I got to wondering if the speakers would be OK in that position, and if so, should they aim up along the back wall or if they should be mounted conventionally, facing forward? Then I got to wondering if I shouldn't mount the speakers upside down, tweeters on the bottom and the woofers on the top? That would move the higher frequencies further away?

Is the whole "behind the couch" idea foolish and I should leave them out, put them to the sides of the couch on the floor, or my behind the couch idea?

Thanks for your experience and advice.

Lew

 

[j_garcia]

It depends on a lot of things, most notably your listening position and the room. Behind the couch, I'd either point them up or towards the center facing out Neither is the ideal situation, but a little experimentation should reveal which is the best for you. When I first started on this stuff, I experimented with a lot of positions for speakers and found what worked in one room didn't work for another, so each room ends up being potentially a new experiment if the generally recommended positions aren't an option or aren't working well.

I don't put my surrounds above me, they are stand mounted the same as my mains at the same (ear) level when seated. Surrounds should never be pointed directly at the listener, as the definition of surround is to be diffused rather than direct.

 

[vividere]

Howdy!

Do some of the sound field options on the Yamaha use the surround backs even if the source material isn't 6.1? I was reviewing my DVD collection and only found a few titles that claimed to be 6.1 and none that were 7.1.

I am just curious how much I am going to get out of them. Since Audioholics chose to use Alan's speaker placement guide as the only one I could find on here, I assumed what he wrote was close to gospel, knowing that each room is in fact different. He even wrote the below in BOLD:

"The main left and right surrounds should be to the respective sides of the listening area, above ear level if possible (ideally 2 feet or more) at an angle of 90 to 110 degrees (see, even Dolby Labs give you some variance) from the front center."

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/loudspeakers/hometheaterspeakerlayout.php

Alan's chart shows the surrounds directly facing the listener or up to 110 degrees from the listener. The owner's manual that came with my JBL front speakers also shows the surrounds directly alongside the listener, facing the listener.

I just checked the Dolby site and found that Alan got his charts from there or vice versa. This is what Dolby says about the main surrounds:

"Ideally, your front speakers, high-frequency drivers, or tweeters should be positioned at ear level (when you're seated). Our recommended height for the surrounds is above ear level, as soundtracks are likely to be optimized for that location."

The Dolby site doesn't give suggestions on the surround back speakers other then that they face towards the center but they don't comment on their height, other than there general comments about surrounds being 2 or more feet above your ears.

My ears are just not that finicky, i.e. I can't tell... I am still trying to figure out how much impact the PB-10 has on my configuration. If I can hardly tell I added a sub, you can imagine how little I could tell in a 10-20 degree difference in placement of the surrounds.

Thanks!

Lew

 

[j_garcia]

There are NO 7.1 movies. For all intents and purposes, 7.1 IS 6.1 with two rear surround speakers. Yes, there should be a number of DSP modes that will allow you to "force" the use of the rear surrounds, spreading the signal across all of your speakers. Dolby Prologic IIx actually adjusts each of the rear centers, making them slightly different based on the side that they are on. Some Harman Kardon and a few other manufacturers employ Logic7 which does something similar. PLII, Circle Surround 6.1, DTS:NEO6, etc...

The PB-10 should add noticable impact to most systems, unless you have a big room. I had one for about a year and it was a very decent sub, but I have a pretty large room.

 

[vividere]

I think my old 10" speakers are just taking too much space behind the couch so now I don't know if I should move them to the sides of the couch or just get rid of them... I can't really figure out how I would place other speakers, even if I got something else. What is customarily done for surround back speakers when your couch is against the wall? To make matters worse, there is a piano window above the couch so if I got smaller speakers I could mount on the wall above the couch, they would have to be all the way up at the ceiling.

Wish I had the space to dedicate to a home theatre so I could overcome some of these speaker placement issues, not to mention the hardwood floors and plaster walls.

Lew

 

[j_garcia]

Above the window proably wouldn't be an issue, since you would want the speakers to be further from you to give a more diffused effect. You could try the current speakers on either side of the couch and see what they do for you. Smaller speakers than can be mounted and placed more easily might be a good idea though.

Here's some tips from Dolby:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html

 

[louhamilton]

In-ceilings may be an option. I do not know how long the window is above your couch but Polk FXi3/5's or other di/bipole may be an option. You can look at the Home Theater Handbook from Polk Audio to see how they suggest surround speaker placement when your listening position is against the back wall.

-Lou

 

[vividere]

J, I am familiar with that chart and also the other one that shows the 7.1 setup as they are posted on Audioholics. If I was to move the rear surround speakers to the side of the couch, would you face them into the couch or into the room (forward)?

Lou, I have no way of mounting in-ceiling speakers.. someone who owned this home before me put in acoustic ceiling tile and probably did so to cover up some major ceiling damage that they didn't want to simply re-plaster. This is an old farmhouse with plaster (not sheetrock) construction and it is also likely I will be moving this year. Also, the piano window is wide, even wider than the couch.

I will check out the Polk site.

I just got more feedfack from another forum and they suggested that in a small room there is no advantage of 7.1 over 5.1?

I was wondering about mounting presence speakers but if 7.1 isn't even of any value, then even more speakers seem totally superfluous?

If you didn't see it yet, here is a link to my current layout.

http://360minnesota.com/htroomnow4.jpg

 

[louhamilton]

My room is a similar size.

You can see my layout here: http://louhamilton23.tripod.com/ht_gallery.htm

The front speaker and center have been upgraded, but I have not updated the pics yet.

And yes, our rooms are typically too small to gain any advantage of 6.1 or 7.1 surround.

-Lou