surround sound system and Stereo throughout House

[kpierce]

This forum is great, everyone he has been so supportive and helpful. Thanks.....

However as I learn more, I learn I really don't know much so here are a few questions.

I have a family room wired for a surround sound system and also 4 additional rooms with 2 speakers each. Ideally I would like to be able to run everything off of one receiver if the cost is not too high.

I was told if I don't want to get a multi-zoned system I could simply hook up volume controls each room (which it is wired for) and turn the volume off where I did not want it. But I would want to watch TV in one room and someone else would want to listen to music in another.

So my questions are several:
1. Is there a receiver say around $500 that would allow for a surround sound in my family room and support 4 additional zones? If so, can you direct me to this product.

2. Would it be better to simply purchase a system that supported A/B speakers and use the A for surround sound and B for the other 4 zones with volume controls in each room? Draw back to an A/B as I see it would be that whatever goes through one channel would go through the other. So if I was watching TV in surround sound, I could not pipe FM radio through the B speakers. (If this is the case that is not a viable option)

3. So, would it be better(actually cheaper) to get a 2 zone system with volume controls? run all 4 rooms off the second zone. Only one or two zones max would be active at any one time. Most likely just one.

4. With all that said, can anyone recommend good flush mounted stereo speakers for the other 4 locations? About $50 each would be my limit at this point.

5. Can anyone suggest a good flush mounted surround sound set of speakers? I need the left/right front/back speakers (4 to be flush mounted). Are these just stereo speakers?

6. In addition to #5 above if left/right front/back are simply stereo speakers, can anyone recommend a good center and subwoofer to go with a recommendation in #5. Or is there a set you can buy that would fit the need? 4 flush mounted a center and subwoofer for a 5.1 setup?

Sorry for the long message, but basically trying to get a receiver to wire a 5.1 family room and also drive sound to 4 other rooms for stereo (CD/FM listening). Also, need to get flush mounted speakers.

thanks in advance.

 

[Eric Apple]

Not to difficult - if you conceed to having two zones

Q) Is there a receiver say around $500 that would allow for a surround sound in my family room and support 4 additional zones? If so, can you direct me to this product.

A) The products that can do this are way over $500, more like $5000. You can find a receiver that will support a main 5.1 zone plus a powered zone 2 (see http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SEEfFP31Qd3/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=580TXS603B ). You can get the receiver cheaper, but Crutchfield will really help you get this thing setup.

Q) Would it be better to simply purchase a system that supported A/B speakers and use the A for surround sound and B for the other 4 zones with volume controls in each room? Draw back to an A/B as I see it would be that whatever goes through one channel would go through the other.

A) I suggest starting with Onkyo (above link) powering both zones using impendance matching volume controls (See http://www.smarthome.com/8262.HTML ). The main zone gets 5.1, the other zones are stereo audio.

Once you get tired of people messing up what's playing in zone2 or if you want 7.1 sound in the main zone, Just get another receiver. You then can feed the main 7,1 system with the digital feeds from your CD & DVD players, and then feed another receiver with the analog. The second receiver will then have the job of powering 4 pairs of speakers.

I would prefer to use two seperate receivers. Because, other people using the main zone will continually mess up what's playing in the other zones if you don't.

Both of this options allow you to have something playing in the main zone, with the same thing (but independent of the main zone) playing in all other zones.

Q) So if I was watching TV in surround sound, I could not pipe FM radio through the B speakers. (If this is the case that is not a viable option)
A) This rules out using one single zone receiver. You can avoid this by using a 2 zone reciever, or two single zone receivers.

 

[AVRat]

You definitely need a dual source/dual zone capable unit as a minimum. However, I would be more comfortable using a separate amp to power 4 pairs of speakers. An AudioSource Amp 100 (2 ohm stable) should be sufficient (jr.com - $150).

I really don’t like to recommend too many speakers much under $200/pair regular price. However, for extreme budget conscious people, I suggest the BIC Muro M-SR6, available at smarthome.com for $110/pair. Sounddistributors.com $79/pr and the BIC DV62CLR Center/$95.

How big is your theater space for sub recommendation.

 

[jcPanny]

Zone 2 receiver

The Yamaha RX-V1500 would make a great receiver for your application in your $500 budget. The 2 zone feature will allow you to be playing a movie in the HT with 5.1 surround sound while listening to another source in the 4 zone 2 rooms. With 120 Watts per channel, it should work well driving the speakers in 4 rooms using its zone 2 amp delivering 30 watts per speaker. Hovever, you will need to use "impedence matching" volume controls with the jumper set for 4 pairs of speakers. This will ensure that the receiver's amp sees an 8 ohms impedence.

For decent performance from your HT, you should consider the on-wall speakers from Axiom including the W22s for fronts, a W100 center, and QS8 rears (which can be mounted on the wall, also). Below this price range, you would be much better off with the performance of a bookshel type system instead of cheap in-wall speakers.

You should be able to find some inexpensive options for in-ceiling speakers in the other 4 rooms for about $100 per pair. These are not as critical as they are normally used for background music at moderate levels.

 

[kpierce]

thanks again for the great advice. One final question on this.

Are the front and rear speakers on a surround sound 5.1 HT system all the same type of speaker? That is, is there a specific front and specific back speakers or are they basically interchangeable?

thanks.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker types

First, the front and center speakers are almost always direct radiating speakers. The fronts can be bookshelf speakers or floorstanders, while it is common for the center chanel to have 2 woofers with 1 tweeter in the middle.

For surrounds, Dolby recommends that bipole/dipole type speakers be used for the side surrounds. For the rear surrounds, bipole/dipole type or direct radiating speakers can be used.

So yes, in a good HT setup, the fronts will be different from the center and surrounds, but all should be from the same brand and line of speakers so that they tonally match. The subwoofer, however, does not need to be the same brand as the other speakers.

 

[kpierce]

I am confused by what an impendance matching volume control does.

Quote from above:
A) I suggest starting with Onkyo (above link) powering both zones using impendance matching volume controls (See http://www.smarthome.com/8262.HTML ). The main zone gets 5.1, the other zones are stereo audio.

This link states the following:

When this Impedance Matching Volume control is used between a set of speakers and an amplifier, the volume control can present a higher impedance level for the amplifier to see. Once all the higher impedance volume controls are added up, you're back to a safe level for your amplifier.

Use this volume control in parallel with up to 16 pairs of speakers. You can set the unit to provide an impedance load of 16, 32, 64 ohms, etc. At 16 ohms you can wire 2 pairs of speakers in parallel and still have an 8-ohm load for your amplifier. At 64 ohms you can wire 8 pairs of speakers and provide a 4-ohm load and so on. A jumper on the volume control allows easy setting of the volume control's impedance level.

This seems to imply I could hook this up next to my amp and then hook up to 16 pairs of speakers without a problem.

I know I am mis-understanding something here, but not sure what it is.

As I was writing this I found this item on the same website.

http://www.smarthome.com/8267.html. wouldn't this allow for 8 rooms of speakers on one amp?

I even just found this item on ebay that says it will allow for 6 rooms at once and it is $39. Might not be the greatest quality but I am looking for basically background type music.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIO-SPEAKER-STRUCTURED-WIRING-DISTRIBUTION-PANEL_W0QQitemZ5710932526QQcategoryZ23777QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

thanks again for all the help. This has been a great learning experience.

 

[MDS]

The first Impedance Matching volume control sounds like the most flexible and probably the best choice. The 8 speaker distribution panel clearly says it will present a 4 ohm load and while the receiver can probably handle that, it would be better to present less load. The cheap one on Ebay lists no useful information about it, so I would avoid it.

Use this volume control in parallel with up to 16 pairs of speakers. You can set the unit to provide an impedance load of 16, 32, 64 ohms, etc. At 16 ohms you can wire 2 pairs of speakers in parallel and still have an 8-ohm load for your amplifier. At 64 ohms you can wire 8 pairs of speakers and provide a 4-ohm load and so on. A jumper on the volume control allows easy setting of the volume control's impedance level.

This seems to imply I could hook this up next to my amp and then hook up to 16 pairs of speakers without a problem.

What that description is saying is that you can selectively set the impedance that the receiver will see. When it says 16, 32, 64, etc, how high can it go? How high it can go will determine whether or not you can connect all 16 pairs and still present an 8 ohm load.

Here is how it works: If two 8 ohm speakers are wired in parallel, the impedance is halved. When both speakers have the same impedance, the math is simple - it is just 8/2=4. The general formula for when the impedances differs between speakers is 1/(1/R1 + 1/R2 ...) which results in the same answer: 1/(1/8+1/8)=4.

That volume control apparently lets you dial in the impedance you need to achieve whatever target impedance you want based on the number of speakers you have connected.

Taking the example that says 'At 16 ohms you can wire 2 pairs of speakers in parallel and still have an 8-ohm load for your amplifier.': the volume control will make it so each pair is 16 ohms and 1/(1/16+1/16)=8. If you wanted 4 pairs and still have the impedance be 8 ohms, you would set the volume control to 32 ohms. At 64 ohms, you could have 8 pairs and still have the receiver see 8 ohms. Those examples were for 8 ohm speakers.

If you have 4 ohm speakers or a combination of different impedances you can calculate what value to use for the volume control to maintain a 4 ohm or 8 ohm impedance for the receiver. So this volume control gives you alot of flexibility...