Surround sound mode differences and other ways to maximize my new HK AVR635

[lbcheng]

Guys, I am in sound heaven. My wife got tired of me *****ing about why the set of Paradigm Cinema speakers we got 6 months ago didn't sound nearly as good as they did in the showroom, and bought me a receiver as a birthday gift. I did the research, she took care of the check. I sent her a link for the HK AVR435, figuring that the 10 WPC and video hookups difference didn't justify the price, but she went ahead and got the 635 anyhow. Goes against my natural desire for bang-for-the-buck, but hey.

So the sound difference compared to my HTIB Aiwa receiver was immediately clear -- most of all in music choices I was familiar with. Amazing, and yes, I know that I could have probably gotten the same boost in quality even at the entry-level decent receivers, but very appreciated. Watching a movie, however, was a little less impressive. As this is my first decent receiver, I was hoping to get some help from you all on basic settings and choices to make sure I'm not bottlenecking anything in my system.


1. What are the differences between the different modes: Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby DTS 5.1, 6.1 DTS-ES Discrete, DTS-ES Matrix, Dolby Pro Logic II, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, DTS Neo:6, Cinema 6.1/5.1, and Music 6.1/5.1), and finally, HK's own Logic 7 (Cinema, Music, and Enhance).
There is a single sheet describing each of these permutations, but what I'm really looking for is your own subjective descriptions of what are the top few for music and top few for HT to test out on my own ears. I am running 5 speakers plus sub.

2. Is there any advantage to running my single video input (DVD) through the receiver instead of directly to my TV? The DVD has component outs but the TV does not (only S-Video), so I assumed that I should keep the direct DVD-TV hookup.

3. Is there any advantage to using the 48khz to 96khz upsampling setting? According to the manual, "the AVR635 allows you to upsample the incoming 48khz signals to 96khz for added resolution." I didn't hear a difference, but wasn't sure if I was either in the wrong decoding mode or need special audio material.

4. Any reason to set up my rears as "Small" speakers vs. "Large"? I think that setting them as Large will push more of the frequency to them, but am not sure if that is a good thing for HT.

5. My audio is currently coming in from a CD jukebox through RCA stereo plugs. The unit does not have an optical/digital out -- would there be significant enough improvement to justify looking for a new unit just to get the digital out?

6. Interconnects: The HK manual recommends 16 gauge or lower on everything. I am running 18 gauge about 15-20' to the surrounds and don't think I'm likely to change those. I would like to hear whether recommendations on whether I need 14, or if 16 or 18 is okay for the mains and center (all 5' or less). Does brand matter for the same gauge? (My wife bought a big roll of 20gauge Monster cable that I don't know what to do with now)

7. Last: I'm not a big gamer, but wonder if there is anything that will allow me to play a game on my laptop in the living room with audio coming through the new setup. A wireless solution is what I'm looking for, as opposed to 10' RCA cables splitting off of my headphone jack.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts -- I would have procrastinated forever had I not found this board and been encouraged by your advice.

 

[zumbo]

1. Use the mode encoded on the disc. If it's dd, use dd. If it's dts, use dts. And so on. Most receivers have an auto setting that usually detects the signal and uses the correct one on it's on. Most dvd's have an audio selection menu. It is under languages sometimes. Use PLII to playback 2ch in surround. I prefer to listen to 2ch music in 2ch only. I use PLII movie for tv though.

2. There are three advantages to running through the receiver.
a) The receiver will switch the audio and video for you instead of having to switch the audio on the receiver, and the video on the tv.
b) Some receivers will upscale video. This does not apply to your current tv, but could for future reference.
c) If s-video is the highest signal your tv will allow, you can run everything to the receiver and only have one single s-video to the tv. Also refer to (a)

3. Not sure. If it doesn't sound better, why bother.

4. All speakers should be set to SMALL. http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/avhardware/audiovideosetup.php

5. Don't know what a cd jukebox is. But, if the source is 2-channel cd, I don't think there would be an advantage. If this is something like cab/sat music, there is a huge difference.

6.

16 gauge/ 4 ohm's 20 ft max / 8 ohm's 40 ft max.

14 gauge/ 4 ohm's 40 ft max / 8 ohm's 80 ft max.

12 gauge/ 4 ohm's 50 ft max / 8 ohm's 100 ft max.

10 gauge wire is pretty much only needed after 100 foot run's.

7. Someone else will get this one.

 

[lbcheng]

Specific to HK AVR series

Zumbo - thanks for the help -- I've gotten most of the questions settled, but I'm still playing with the surround sound modes.

Now I just hope that there are a few folks out there with the HK AVR series who have a sense of the subjective differences between the various surround sound decoding modes.

 

[jcPanny]

5. Currently, your CD changer is doing the D/A conversion. Your new receiver probably has better D/A converters then the old changer, thus, you would hear an improvement with a digital connection. For an A/B comparison, burn a copy of one of your favorite CDs and play it on the CD changer, and in the DVD player (digital connection) and see if you can hear any difference.

6. It would be worth while to get some decent 14 AWG copper speaker wire. It doesn't have to be expensive monster stuff. Sound King, Belkin, or wire from Radio shack will work fine.

7. There are a few devices including the squeeze box 2 that can stream digital audio from a PC to the receiver. I think the wireless version runs about $300. You might consider the low tech method of an analog or digital cable connected from the laptop to the jacks on the front of the receiver when you want to play games with the stereo system.

 

[jehelmes]

LOGIC 7 is great & so is the H/K 635

Though I've never been a big fan of artificial surround sound schemes, I've become quite enamored with LOGIC 7. I feel that I'm finally getting my money's worth from my rear surrounds. I even use it with DD-EX & DTS-ES discs, as I perceive a larger sound stage and smoother, more natural front-to-rear panning. Moreover, the fact that the technology has trickled down from the high-end Lexicon line gives me some warm, fuzzy feelings.

In addition, do not assume “other decent entry-level receivers” would easily match the mighty AVR635. My receiver evolution has been as follows: Technics SAGX470 > Yamaha RXV592 > Nakamichi AV500 > Onkyo 797 > Yamaha HTR5790 > H/K AVR635; and I've never perceived a bigger jump!

I never before considered an H/K because I felt the "high instantaneous current" spiel insulted our intelligence. After all most outlets are connected to a 15-amp circuit breaker, so there's no way an H/K is going to give you 40 or 50 amps for any period of time! However, as I looked at separates for my latest upgrade, I kept seeing references to capacitor sizes (the bigger, the better). I found some power amps even use dual plugs or specify 20-amp circuits.

I realized that an amp's power consumption went up along with weight, capacitor size, watts, price, etc. Therefore, I started looking at the power consumption of various receivers. What I found was quite telling:
Sony STRDE998 = 310W (2.8 amps drawn from wall outlet)
Pioneer VSX1015 = 480W (4.3 amps)
Yamaha HTR5790 = 500W (4.5 amps)
Marantz SR8500 = 700W (6.4 amps)
Denon AVR3805 = 780W (calc. from 7.1 amp spec)
Denon AVR4806 = 1166W (calc. from 10.6 amp spec)
Denon AVR5805 = 1430W (calc from 13 amp spec)
H/K AVR635 = 1000W (9.1 amps)
H/K AVR7300 = 1360W (12.4 amps)

Suddenly I understood why my "110W x 7" Yamaha had been so disappointing, even in my smallish 13' x 18' home theater. Now I had to hear an H/K for myself, and trust me, I dreaded the thought of convincing my wife I needed to replace my 1-1/2 year-old HTR5790!

However the improvement was immediately noticeable. I won't pretend I know the difference between "warm", "bloaty", or "sibilance", but suffice it to say my system simply had more...er...balls. Despite the "mere" 75W rating, the much heavier 635 slammed my speakers harder than ever before. For the 1st time I felt tight, impactful bass out of my Polk RT800's.

The extra capacitance also unveils nuances such as sustained sound dynamics; for example in the bank robbery scene in Spiderman 2 as Dr. Oct is throwing money bag after money bag at a dodging Spiderman, gold coins are splashing all around...with my old receiver, the result was SPlashhhh.. but now I get SPLASHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I A-B'd this several times with a stopwatch to make sure I wasn't fooling myself (and again remember that I did NOT want to want the H/K), but it soon became obvious that the H/K sustained the extended sound effect whereas the Yamaha had run out of juice (a clear nod to the H/K's superior power amp section.)

Lastly, I surely was encouraged when H/K recently saw fit to utilize a tweaked version of the 635's amp section in their upcoming AVR740 and its $3500 MSRP! I hate to sound like a fanboy, and do not want to get into a flame war with happy Yammy owners. Not only are everyone's ears are different, but amps and speakers form a system...perhaps my H/K-Polk RT is simply a synergistic combo for my auditory and vestibular systems. I don't know, but I highly recommend everyone in the market for a "decent" receiver give the 635 a critical listen.

 

[jehelmes]

Oh, I also agree with jcPanny in upgrading your wires to 12 or 14 ga Sound King. Would you rather drink a shake from a coffee stirrer or one of those big, fat McDonald's straws? Do yourself a favor, and get some fat copper wires. Good luck.

 

[cadd]

Lots of useful info! I'm sure I'll have more as I begin to setup my AVR635 this week.