Surround Sound Ceiling Speakers

J

Javaman

Audiophyte
I'm having a home built and one of the upgrade options is 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound pre-wiring. I've opted for 7.1 (I'm upgrading from a 5.1 Sony system) wiring and I have a few questions. The front three speakers will be in the TV wall (left and right of the TV with the center channel properly placed under the TV (another option I selected is a wall mount for the TV). The remaining 4 speakers will be in the ceiling (I realize this "goes against the grain" and the placement is not proper). My questions are:
Can the 4 speakers in the ceiling work (I realize what sounds good to one is subjective)? Speaker recommendations? My thoughts are to use my existing sub woofer and possibly the center channel speaker. These are Sony speakers and were part of the 5.1 system. I would like to use a rectangular speaker for the front left and right and a round speaker for the ceiling. Budget is about $700. The receiver I'm planning to use is the Sony STR-DN1040.
Appreciate everyone's time and advice!!
 
D

Dorita Franklyn

Enthusiast
Just want to through out there my aunt and uncle did something similar when they had their house built almost 15 years ago (had the speakers built in the ceiling) and also had their original speakers that they use as well. It all works perfectly fine still to this day. Good luck!
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Can the 4 speakers in the ceiling work (I realize what sounds good to one is subjective)? Speaker recommendations? My thoughts are to use my existing sub woofer and possibly the center channel speaker.
I think you can probably get away with ceiling speakers as surrounds if you have no choice, but in-wall would be better if it's not too late to change your mind. Look at Home Theater Direct or Only Factory Direct for in-wall / in-ceiling speakers.

For the front LCR, I strongly suggest having the builders put banana plug terminals on the wall so you can wall-mount bookshelf speakers, something like this combo:

Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE pair with an HTM-200 SE center channel = $476
heavy duty wall-mount bracket 4-pack -- $33

I've also heard great things about these modded Pioneers. The only way to get a total price on them is to email Philharmonic, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be more than $350 shipped for left, center, and right. Wall-mounting them will require different mount brackets and your center will have to go either on a shelf or on a center stage bracket attached to the top of your television.

Re-using your existing center channel is not a good idea. Having the center timbre-match with the LR mains is important, and that Sony center probably only matches the other speakers it came with.

Does your $700 budget include the receiver as well?

I think you would be much more pleased with the sound from a solid 3.1 system than a mediocre 7.1. If you insist on all in-wall, in-ceiling, then so be it. Here you go, but you're going against doctor's orders here:

2x in-ceiling speakers pair -- $114
in-wall center -- $49
in-wall 8" speakers pair -- $100 or in-wall 6.5" -- $45 if limited by budget or space between studs
a better subwoofer than you have now -- $199. If you're planning to recycle the so-called "subwoofer" bass-module from a home-theater-in-a-box, trust me. You need this.
subwoofer cable -- $15
Smart power strip -- $45 (see "new and used from $39" link; This will be better than the sub's built-in auto-on signal detection. The sub's auto-on can be defeated with a switch on the back.)

Don't expect magic, though. Speakers need an enclosure to resonate and for Q control. In-wall speakers aren't meant for audiophile reproduction. Nevertheless, this ought to sound pretty clean as far as architectural sound systems go, especially if you can opt for the 8" in-wallers.

For the receiver, go for the Denon AVR-E400. Audyssey room correction and Dynamic EQ wins.

And make sure the builders use at least 16-gauge wiring in the walls and ceiling.
 
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J

Javaman

Audiophyte
Thank you very much for thinking this through and making the time to answer. I have done some additional research since my initial post and this is what I've come up with.
Polk MC65's for the left and right and a Polk 255c-RT for the center (from what I've read (and as you point out) the center should match the front speakers (I am sticking with wall speakers for these)
The four rears (unfortunately I don't have an option and these will be ceiling speakers) I'm looking at are Polk RC 80i's.
Subwoofer (not going with my "old" Sony) I'm pretty sure will be the Infinity Primus PS 38.
Receiver I'm looking at is the Sony STR-DN1040 (got a very good review here).
$700 is speaker budget - right now I'm looking at around $900. Receiver will add another $400. Pretty much my cap (need to have some $ left over for my weekend therapy - my 1969 Corvette! LOL!)
Please let me know what you think and if I've made sensible choices. Thank you again.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Polk LCR and surrounds are probably as good as any I guess. Infinity sub = just, no. 8" sub with 150w rms and an f3 of 35Hz. That's a toy sub, and it's more expensive anyway. Stick with my recommendation above. It's even $30 cheaper as a refurb. See this thread for nudie pics, measurements and a user review for justification. If you're not fond of the finish, it's available in maple, cherry, and black all for the same price I think. Receiver, go with whichever has the features you desire. I still believe the Denon's Audyssey room correction and Dynamic EQ would give you better results, but the Sony won't be bad.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk
 
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J

Javaman

Audiophyte
Will definitely take your advice on the subwoofer - Acoustic Audio it is! As far as the receiver (please forgive my ignorance) - I did a search on Crutchfield's site and while I found several Denon receivers, I did not find the "Audysessy" model. Would you please tell me which Denon receiver you are referring to? In a "nutshell", the differences and advantages over the Sony? Thanks
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Audyssey is a feature, not a model. Well, it's a company who provides a set of features, anyway.

The Denon AVR-E400 is the model for you to research, although consider getting a refurb from accessories4less. The refurb still comes with a manufacturer warranty, and you'll save a bunch of money.

The biggest advantage of the Denon over the Sony is Dynamic EQ. Science. Also, Dynamic Volume is nice for calming extreme differences in dynamics (to avoid waking babies, or just to reduce the difference between show and commercial); and the Audyssey flavor of it is a little more natural than volume limiting features of other receivers. A little more.

Great that you decided to get the better sub. When you get it, perform the subwoofer crawl to make sure you get the best response from it. Also, I highly recommend that KabelDirekt subwoofer Y cable I linked in my first response above. I'm pretty sure if you use a pure mono-to-mono cable you'll only get half the output. I'll try and look at the manual online when I get time -- not sure when that'll be though. Busy weekend planned.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk
 
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J

Javaman

Audiophyte
WOW! I can't thank you enough for your suggestions and advice (I had many views with 0 replies and had just about given up). I can see that without them, I would have ended up at best, with a sub par system. I have never been a big fan of refurb'd equipment (thinking more about my experiences with Corvette parts) but with a manufacturer warranty, how can you go wrong?
Home won't be ready until late July - early August but when it is, and I'm being blown away by what I'm watching (and hearing), I will think of you! Being serious for a moment, I will post you once everything is finished and installed.

The last thing I want to comment on is the importance of forums like this. I have seen it time and time again (on the Corvette forum that I'm a member of) where a "newbie" will post a question and when it's all said and done, come away with much more knowledge than when he or she first logged on. After all, isn't one of the best things about our hobbies (or passions) being able to educate others?
Larry
 
J

Javaman

Audiophyte
Very cool! Now if only I could convince my wife to let me hang a disco ball!!
Did some further research on the Denon receiver and of course came away with a few questions. In addition to the E400 I looked at the X2000. Both prices on Accessories4Less are great - $249 & $349. Both are discontinued though - a concern? The X2000 offers Silver Audyssey features as opposed to the 400's Bronze. Does it matter? Distinct advantages of Silver over Bronze? $349 for the X2000 keeps me well in budget - that said, is it worth the extra $100?
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
I'd say might as well go for soda. Nobody hurts, and nobody cries. The e400 is one of the entry level models, and the x2000 is mid-tier. See the Audyssey website for a comparison between the e400's MultiEQ and the X2000's MultiEQ XT. The changes between last year's models and this year's are marginal. You aren't missing much by getting last year's. As for the differences between the e400 and the x2000's features, just the usual stuff -- watts per channel, additional inputs. Just open two web browser tabs and flip back and forth to compare the specs.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk
 

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