Surround Question with KEF

K

kw5150

Audiophyte
I currently have a 5.1 setup and want to expand it to 7.1.4. I am using a pair of KEF R700s and the KEF R600 as the center and a pair of rear speakers and one sub. I am considering using KEF Q50a speakers as the surrounds and want to add 4 ceiling ATMOS speakers like maybe the KEF ci200QR speakers.

I have never seen anyone talking about using the QA50a speakers on the side as surrounds, mounted high on the wall, but as far as I know they are the only option if you want to keep the speakers all in the KEF family, which I do. Thank you for all your thoughts and suggestions?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Why would QA50a speakers be the only surround option from Kef?
 
K

kw5150

Audiophyte
It's true that KEF lists several surround speakers in their line on their website. For various reasons I am not considering those. The R8a for $1400 surrounds seem ridiculous, considering the Q50a could possibly be used at less than half the price ($600). Their other solutions don't work because of my room layout, with no room for standing or large flat wall speakers.

So that brings me to my question about using Q50a (ATMOS speakers) for my surrounds. I also read that the timber match may not be that important for the ceiling KEF ATMOS speakers (maybe except for music) I am considering (ci200QR at $400 per pair $800 for 4) and don't know if its worth it to go with those larger ceiling speakers.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Couple things. I wouldn’t recommend mounting any side/rear surrounds close to the ceiling. Atmos needs the vertical separation to work.
You’d have to check with KEF but afaik, Dolby AE speakers have a notch in the FR by way of the internal XO. It helps to trick the brain into “hearing” overhead sounds. If you did install them, say in a “height” position, audyssey would try to fix that notch by boosting that range. So you’d have two problems. Atmos doesn’t support an AE speaker in a height/top location, and the speaker isn’t made to work that way.
Timber matching is not super critical for bed and height layer, but Ime the closet you can get the better the experience will be. Do you have any pics of the room? I’m trying to follow the description but my imagination isn’t always so good.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Also, using AE speakers where they’re designed to go can be very difficult to get right.
Edit: is dis see that they can be used as LR(normal). Must have a switch to bypass the notch.
Still. I wouldn’t put any bed layer speakers at the ceiling.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It's true that KEF lists several surround speakers in their line on their website. For various reasons I am not considering those. The R8a for $1400 surrounds seem ridiculous, considering the Q50a could possibly be used at less than half the price ($600). Their other solutions don't work because of my room layout, with no room for standing or large flat wall speakers.

So that brings me to my question about using Q50a (ATMOS speakers) for my surrounds. I also read that the timber match may not be that important for the ceiling KEF ATMOS speakers (maybe except for music) I am considering (ci200QR at $400 per pair $800 for 4) and don't know if its worth it to go with those larger ceiling speakers.
They have a variety of speakers thus my question...thought maybe you were looking at something specialized like bipoles or something (saw that it was an Atmos bouncy speaker afterward).....pretty much any speaker can be used as a surround of course. Might not work for your purposes of course....

What about in-wall if floor space is critical? If the speaker is relatively flat, why wouldn't that work?

Like William said otherwise....and pics could help....
 
K

kw5150

Audiophyte
I have attached a picture of the room to help your visualization. First thank you for the info on why not to try using the KEF Q50a ATMOS speakers as surrounds. I have now given up on that idea, given the challenges with the room layout. The pic is a little distorted, but you will see the problem. I have highlighted in red where the surround speakers need to go to be next to the ends of the couch. On the left side you will see a space for an in-wall speaker next to the window and on the right side because there is only about 3 inches of room wall, next to bi-fold closet doors -- the only real space I guess for a surround speaker is on the bookshelf.

So that leaves me with an in-wall speaker on the left and a bookshelf speaker on the right I guess?? Not great, but looking for speaker suggestions from KEF ( so as to match the timber of my other KEF speakers in the room). Oh and I cant use speakers on stands as there are young children that use the room too. Thank you so much for any suggestions you can offer.
 

Attachments

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Holy cow man! That’s a tough room. I think what you’ve done so far is as good as you can. Moving forward, if that were my room, I would consider the locations you’ve marked. I would also consider a matching pair of bookshelf speakers. Either wall mount the left surround and put the right surround IN the bookshelf. Or wall mount the left surround, and also wall mount the right one on the little JUT out between the closet and bookshelf. As far as kids and BS speakers, my thoughts are that kids are trainable and can learn to leave things alone. Ymmv of course. Lol.
While I DO believe in having speakers from the same line at least, the problem is that the room and placement will still affect the FR. So in other words while it would be ideal, considering the rest of the room/acoustics/placement etc, it might be the least of the issues lol.
I would still pursue Atmos. What is the ceiling height? That would dictate how I went forward.
 
K

kw5150

Audiophyte
I thought you might see why this was not a straight forward situation in this room after seeing the picture. I will add 4 Atmos in the ceiling, which is 7'10"" in the room.Just trying to decide what to do with the surrounds and then which Atmos to install?
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
Agree with William, that is one tough room to work with.

Any other rooms in the house you could 'nationalize' :D without having a full-blown rebellion on your hands? (read: wife)
 
K

kw5150

Audiophyte
The room is bigger than it looks in the distorted picture. It's 20' w X 22' deep. If I didn't have the lack of solid wall space on the right side where the bi-fold doors are it would be great. Unfortunately there are no other rooms available to commander.

I'm wondering now if there is a smallish cube/bookcase speaker I could mount on both sides of the wall even though it wont be a KEF that will sound ok with the other KEF speakers I am committed to in the room?
 
K

kw5150

Audiophyte
OK I give up. No cube speaker either. I am leaning now toward the RSL CG5 speaker at each side of the couch for the Surround. I hope they will sound close in timber to the KEF R700 for music. Any thoughts guys?

Thanks so much. I'm going to get there.
 
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