Surge protection & Voltage Stabilization

C

Cousin Vinny

Audiophyte
I am looking to purchase a quality surge protector if that even makes sense.

If lightning hits with its awesome current ranging from 5,000 to 200,000 amps,
my 'surge protector' will most likely be smokin and not feeling too good.
Typically lightning strikes @ ~ 5,000 to 20,000 amps but 100,000 amps and 200,000 amps have been recorded!

First question, I highly doubt any piece of audio equipment in my Entertainment Room will actually stop Mother Nature in her tracks so it seems that if lightning strikes and races through the circuitry in my house and charges through my electrical outlet(s) in my Home Theatre Room AND I have my 'surge protector' plugged into my system properly AND the unit is ON...what will happen? I do not think anyone knows. My understanding is that I would be covered by SOME manufacturers up to ~ $100,000 - $300,000 in damaged equipment. I am assuming you would have to send your unit to the manufacturer so their electrical engineers could examine the piece and indeed confirm you used the product properly. I am assuming the 'surge protector' would be toast and most likely your equipment.

Has anyone had their 'surge protector' see any lightning action?
What happened to your 'surge protector'?
What happened to your audio equipment?
Did the manufacturer pay up?
What is a 'good value' brand for 'surge protection'? I assume when I read the words 'surge protection', manufacturers are talking about local town power surges as well as lightning....correct?

Last question:

Voltage Stabilization.

I do not believe I would be receiving a good value with Monster Cable's $1,500.00 voltage stabilzer because Monster Cable is a marketing machine at least here in the northeast USA. Everyone used to and some still do believe Monster Cable is the only gam ein town and I know they are not.
Can I find a 'good value' Voltage Stabilizer WITH a 'good value' surge protector under one roof WITH a $100,000 insurance policy? Does this girl of my dreams exist?

Sincerely,

Cousin Vinny
Boston, MA:
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
You can purchase a sub $100 surge protector with a cable in/out with proper insurance to cover all your A/V equipment. Just make sure you take some digital pictures of the connections to prove they were properly connected, and take them after lightening hits the house and blows everything out.

Chances are, if your house is hit by lightening, everything including the dishwasher is going to go. Homeowners insurance will step in, cut you a check for everythign minus your $500 deductible, and you can go shopping for that new plasma display. ;)

Just keep in mind, you'll go through the same hoops with a $1500 Monster Cable box as you will a $75 APC unit if you need to file a claim. I've read where Monster has denied claims because the surge came through the cable line, and the cable line was not hooked through the surge unit. The surge went from the cable, into the tv set, and followed the rca's to the receiver, and blew out the entire A/V setup.
 
C

Cousin Vinny

Audiophyte
Surge Protection and Voltage Stabilization

Thanks for your feedback Buckeyefan.

Why couldn't I just secure a rider on my home owner's policy for a lightning
hit which should cover me from dishwashers to audio equipment. That may be a less expensive way to go.......

What about voltage stabilization?

I do not think many products offer both voltage stabilization and surge protection........

You wrote purchase a sub $100 surge protector.....'sub' meaning what?

Are you saying DO NOT spend big bucks on a surge protector but rather purchase a medium priced one, take pictures after connected properly and after a lightning strike AND work with my Home Insurance co. since my chance seem better with a claim?

Thanks.

Cousin Vinny
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
Protection is necessary, even with a chain of APC surge protectors and Tripp Lite conditioners, my 53" SONY RPTV as well as my Yamaha DVD player took a surge hit and even though I manged to fix the TV at a considerable cost, the DVD player was a write off sadly. The other components did survive thankfully, two surge protectors were rendered useless, now imagine if I did not have any protection, there goes my lifetime of investments, power conditioners are a must if you live in condos or in areas close to commercial or industrial regions, your ears will truly appreciate the cleaner sound.
 
WndrBr3d

WndrBr3d

Full Audioholic
Re: Surge Suppressors
Most surge supressors use MOV's (Metal Oxide Varisters) to 'suppress' incoming power surges, as well as being fused in the event the MOV's cant take care of the incoming power surge. See attached picture

Since a MOV is just a type of resistor, any increase in voltage will cause the MOV to start grounding out the incoming signal above 120v (or whatever they're rated at).

In other words, think of these MOV's as air tanks that can hold 5 psi. When you attempt to over fill them, a blow off valve starts letting out the excess pressure (grounding out excess incoming power). If the incoming pressure is too much for the blow off valve to release, a safe guard trips shutting down all incoming air (the fuse), thus preventing an explosion (meltdown of your electronics)

Power strips are mostly for stopping TRANSIENT power surges, with their source being a disturbance on the power grid which makes it into your house.

Now, there are lots of things protecting your home's electronics from the evil power goblins outside, such as your main breaker (usually 100-200amps) and the circuit breaker (20-30amps). If the incoming surge doesn’t pop these breakers, then it's nothing a K-Mart surge strip can’t handle.

What you have to worry about, it electronics feeding back on the same circuit, OR, outside surges (such as lightning, as you stated). So, lets go over these.

Device Frying: Fact of the matter is, it cant surge more than 120v/30a usually. Why? Since the device REQUIRES power, it's not going to surge back more than available. It cant just MAKE more power :p For this case, you'd want a solid surge protector (fused) and if the MOV's cant handle the surge, the fuse will more than likely blow.

Lightning: Depending where the lightning strikes, you MIGHT be okay. Lightning will take the shortest path possible to the ground. This will sometimes be pipes, structural metal, or sometimes your electrical lines. So there IS a chance that your electronics would survive but ONLY because the flow of electrons was NOT through them. If some of your electronics are in the path of the flow of electrons, it will pop and jump the fuse, continuing to fry your home theatre.

So the usual rule of thumb is just buy a quality brand, and modestly rated surge suppressor, and you should be okay for non-acts of god.

Re: Voltage Stabilization
Here's a Link to a previous discussion, where in I brought up the point:

There is a debate on the usefulness of the AVS2000 and items of its likes.

All modern electronics run off DC power. The rectifiers in these electronics convert the incoming AC to DC. High current rectifiers use what’s called a reservoir capacitor, which is used to deliver a smoother DC signal. This also supplies extra current to the rectifier, which normally can compensate on the DC end for voltage drops.

Depending on the size of the reservoir capacitor (> 10,000uF), it should be able to keep the DC current and wave stable. An example of this is when the power blinks on/off. Some of your components might not COMPLETELY lose power. This is because the capacitors in the power supplies were able to carry the load enough so to keep the unit 'brown' instead of off.

Normally your AC should never drop below 115v unless there's some serious pull on the line or your house is wired funny. Even WITH your system in use, the line should still stay above 110v.

How mandatory is the AVS2000? Eh... you could find alternative solutions that are much cheaper that don’t bear the monster label. You could just pick up a power conditioner and plug it into a APC Line-R Automatic Voltage Regulator. Only $59 and performs the exact same task of stepping up or stepping down incoming line voltage. In fact, you could pick up about ten of these babies and still be 50% cheaper than the Monster AVS2000.

I think for now I'll just stick with the Power Conditioner and be happy with that. :)
 

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Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Cousin Vinny Thanks for your feedback Buckeyefan.

Why couldn't I just secure a rider on my home owner's policy for a lightning
hit which should cover me from dishwashers to audio equipment. That may be a less expensive way to go.......
You could, but keep in mind that filing a claim on a small "rider" still puts up a red flag in the underwriters eyes. They could raise your rates, or drop you should another claim be filed within 2 years. My Belkin battery backup/surge protector has a $50,000 (or some huge amount) policy that if any of my equipment is damaged, they'll replace it. It was under $100 for that "peace of mind," and I don't have to file a homeowners claim if something happens.

What about voltage stabilization?

I do not think many products offer both voltage stabilization and surge protection........
I'm not a big fan of voltage stabilization, i.e. Monster products, but then again, I don't have issues with any of my A/V equipment (haven't for 20 years). There's plenty of articles on this at the Audioholics home page. If you must go that route, take WndrBr3d's advice.

You wrote purchase a sub $100 surge protector.....'sub' meaning what?
"Less than"

Are you saying DO NOT spend big bucks on a surge protector but rather purchase a medium priced one, take pictures after connected properly and after a lightning strike AND work with my Home Insurance co. since my chance seem better with a claim?
Absolutely. You should take digital photos/mpeg movie mode of all valuables, save them on a cd-r, and give them to a relative should something happen where you need to file a claim. (Fire, theft, lightening strike, flooding, etc...) I work with insurance companies and adjusters all the time. Believe me, their job is to give you as little as possible. They don't make money by giving away the bank. The more proof you have, the better the chances you'll get properly reimbursed. That goes for Belkin, Tripp Lite, APC, etc...
 
Doug917

Doug917

Full Audioholic
I caught a recent episode of "Mythbusters" where they were trying to recreate a lightning strike inside a house. Granted it did not contain the tru force of mother nature, but a properly grounded house does go a long way. They disconnected the ground after doing a couple tests, and even then, it did not harm any components that were not on at the time, which makes sense as the power would have to arc across a path which is more difficult than taking a path tha is already there. I am a firm beleiver in line conditioning, as it adds clarity to your system's sound and will prolong the failure of your components. However, when it comes to a direct lightning strike I doubt many (or any) surge supressor will will react fast enough or actually stop the surge (read the fine print on a lot of these units, it will say "Unit does not protect against a direct lightning strike").
 
ht_addict

ht_addict

Audioholic
Cousin Vinny said:
Thanks for your feedback Buckeyefan.

Why couldn't I just secure a rider on my home owner's policy for a lightning
hit which should cover me from dishwashers to audio equipment. That may be a less expensive way to go.......

What about voltage stabilization?

I do not think many products offer both voltage stabilization and surge protection........

You wrote purchase a sub $100 surge protector.....'sub' meaning what?

Are you saying DO NOT spend big bucks on a surge protector but rather purchase a medium priced one, take pictures after connected properly and after a lightning strike AND work with my Home Insurance co. since my chance seem better with a claim?

Thanks.

Cousin Vinny

First thing you may want too look into is a whole house protection starting at the main breaker, then you could go with a cheap-o surge protector. If you wan't to just go with a power conditioner do a websearch for the new Belkin PureAV PF60. They can be had for $300-350, and not only offer surge protection but power conditioning. Lightining strikes aren't the only things you have to worry about. Everyday you system is bombarded with smaller surges and noise from the appliances you have in the home.

As far as voltage regulators go, I have the Monster AVS2000 and watched it add back upto 15v to stabilize everything during the summer. Our powergrid regulators dropped the line voltage 5% this summer to keep things stable. So right off the bat my setup would only be seeing 114v without the regulator. Tripplite makes a voltage stabilizer if your interested. The Monster AVS2000 is an expensive unit, but at the same time doesn't have to cost you MSRP, try negotiating. I got 25% off my unit when I got it. Not to mention there is the visual factor when it comes to HT setups. Monster and Belkin are designed to visually fit into a setup, where as a APS or Tripplite have to be hidden.
 
ht_addict

ht_addict

Audioholic
jaxvon said:
Nah, the new APC HT units have voltage stabilization, great surge supression, power conditioning, and battery backup. And they look awesome:

http://apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=310

Unfortunately I don't think they're available yet :(
All for approx $1700US:eek: Not to mention its output is 900w compared to Monsters AVS2000(1800watts), so you'll need 2:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
WndrBr3d

WndrBr3d

Full Audioholic
ht_addict said:
All for approx $1700US:eek: Not to mention its output is 900w compared to Monsters AVS2000(1800watts), so you'll need 2:eek: :eek: :eek:
Yes and no.

The 900w output rating is for the battery. While running in AC mode, it will provide the same 120v/15A as the monster.

When the power does go out, the maximum output of the UPS will be 900w for 6.2 minutes, which isn't half bad.
 
ht_addict

ht_addict

Audioholic
WndrBr3d said:
Yes and no.

The 900w output rating is for the battery. While running in AC mode, it will provide the same 120v/15A as the monster.

When the power does go out, the maximum output of the UPS will be 900w for 6.2 minutes, which isn't half bad.
Can you show me where it shows this on the spec sheet? I see no mention anywhere
 
WndrBr3d

WndrBr3d

Full Audioholic
ht_addict said:
Can you show me where it shows this on the spec sheet? I see no mention anywhere
Wattage is voltage * amps.

For an AC power unit to only provide 900 watts during normal operation off wall power, it'd have to lose 7 amps or 60 volts somewhere along the line, and I doubt a big selling point from APC would be "the ability to ground out 1/2 the available power" :p

This is why you shop for power centers, power strips or anything of that sorts, it doesn't mention 'maximum wattage' or 'maximum power', because the unit is going to be fused at 12A (15A sometimes), and provide the incoming 120v.

The APC unit is a power filter AND battery backup. The battery will not be running hot until the incoming power is severed (or the AC sine wave fluctuates +/- 3hz over 50/60hz, depending on your area).

If you read the manual for this unit, it states:
The S10 Power Conditioner is rated for 700 watts (continuous), and the S15 is rated for 900 watts (continuous). They have been designed, however, to support component inrush currents that are much higher than their continuous power rating. The S10 and S15 are capable of supplying the dynamic peak current draws required by any component designed to work on a 15 amp circuit. Despite their nameplate power ratings, high performance AV equipment draw much less than their listed power ratings. The S10 and S15 can inform the user how much of the power capacity is available as equipment is connected to the unit.
This is a very true statement, because your average household circuit couldn't provide more than 1800 watts (3000VA) without throwing the breaker.

The APC unit can provide the SAME power as the AVR2000 (Voltage Correction, Power Conditioning), and also provide an added bonus of providing a battery backup incase of power outage.

YES, putting more than 900 watts of draw on this unit WILL signal an "overload", but this is only a warning that the battery would be overloaded in the event of a power failure. It would STILL provide backup, but probably only about 1 minute at 1200 watts, compared to 6.2 minutes at 900 watts.

But as I said in my previous post, the 900 watt rating is only for the battery, not the unit's ability to step up/down voltage and condition incoming power.

On a personal note, I think having a battery backup on the average home theater is silly in the first place ;)
 
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