Suprised with volume level of new amp

[allEars]

I just replaced my 200Wpc amp with a 400 wpc unit but for some reason, in order to get about the same volume level of the old amp, I must go up 10-20 points on this new amp, what am I missing? same processor.

 

[MidnightSensi]

What model amps are we talking about?

Where is the input attentation/gain knob set at? What about the input sensitivity (generally a jumper or button in the back of the amp)?

 

[Seth=L]

The input sensitivity on the new amplifier is set lower or is lower. What kind of amplifier did you have and what did you replace it with? Some amplifiers have a gain control (often times it is small and located on the rear), others have an internal bias gain control that can be adjusted although adjusting anything internal is usually not recommended.

You've thwarted my plans for the last time Sensi.

 

[allEars]

The old amp was an Anthem A2 and the new amp is Mcintosh MC402. I don't see a gain switch on the back.

 

[Seth=L]

The most likely scenario is that the McIntosh has a higher voltage gain (but they don't specify on their website). The Anthem has a 1.5v input sensitivity while the McIntosh has a 2v input sensitivity on the phono input, so that's not the likely cause. Where any other changes made, such as reseting the preamp. Any power outages or anything that might have reset the preamp without you knowing?

I wouldn't be concerned you are losing power, I'm sure the McIntosh will pack a wallop if need be. Just be happy it's not buzzing (just bought a used Citation 21 and it was buzzing like a motha....).

 

[bandphan]

FWIW alot of Macs have selectable V inputs

 

[PENG]

The most likely scenario is that the McIntosh has a higher voltage gain (but they don't specify on their website). The Anthem has a 1.5v input sensitivity while the McIntosh has a 2v input sensitivity on the phono input, so that's not the likely cause. Where any other changes made, such as reseting the preamp. Any power outages or anything that might have reset the preamp without you knowing?

I am not sure if the sensitivity numbers your quoted are correct but the MC402 is a power amp so it should not have phono input. If you meant preamp input then if your numbers (2V for the 402 and 1.5V for the A2) are correct, then you have found the reason, because the 402 is then 1/3 less sensitive than the A2 therefore requires more gain (higher volume) to achieve the same SPL.

 

[bandphan]

FWIW alot of Macs have selectable V inputs

Noted this does not

I am not sure if you sensitivity numbers your quoted are correct but the MC402 is a power amp so it should not have phono input. If you meant preamp input then if your numbers (2V for the 402 and 1.5V for the A2) are correct, then you have found the reason, because the 402 is then 1/3 less sensitive than the A2 therefore requires more gain (higher volume) to achieve the same SPL.

You are correct sir

 

[MidnightSensi]

Some McIntosh stuff has both balanced and unbalanced connections, with a selector switch. If your using unbalanced, make sure its in unbalanced mode. If your using balanced, make sure its in balanced mode.

 

[allEars]

I am not sure if the sensitivity numbers your quoted are correct but the MC402 is a power amp so it should not have phono input. If you meant preamp input then if your numbers (2V for the 402 and 1.5V for the A2) are correct, then you have found the reason, because the 402 is then 1/3 less sensitive than the A2 therefore requires more gain (higher volume) to achieve the same SPL.

I think you are right about the sensitivity of the amp. If this is the case where would doubling the watts show up? I am using balanced cables and the switch in the back is set to match.

 

[PENG]

I think you are right about the sensitivity of the amp. If this is the case where would doubling the watts show up? I am using balanced cables and the switch in the back is set to match.

If you use balanced inputs the sensivity is even lower (4V?). That means you need 4V input to get the rated 400W output. Your preamp should still have more than enough output voltage so you just have to turn it higher than what you normally do with the Anthem and not worry about a thing. By the way what is the highest peak you have seen registered on those nice looking meters so far?

 

[bandphan]

By the way what is the highest peak you have seen registered on those nice looking meters so far?

hehe................

 

[allEars]

If you use balanced inputs the sensivity is even lower (4V?). That means you need 4V input to get the rated 400W output. Your preamp should still have more than enough output voltage so you just have to turn it higher than what you normally do with the Anthem and not worry about a thing. By the way what is the highest peak you have seen registered on those nice looking meters so far?

thank you Peng. My Processor is the Mcintosh MX135, is the 4V a configurable setting? I got home late last night from picking it up in the States, I haven't had it too loud.
I was looking for this particular unit but was unable to find one locally (Ontario, Canada) so I drove 5 hours each way to pick it up. It was a great fun day with the family, one that we are going to look back and smile about it. The most I have seen the meter hit was 40 but I am sure I will change that today.

 

[MidnightSensi]

The input sensitivity may be lower, but I suspect that with .775v or the typical pre-out that amplifier should be able to be driven to full power since it has unbalanced inputs available.

They probably keep it fairly low because they want it not make any hissing when the volume is down. That doesn't mean when you level match it that it won't be able to be driven to full power.

The only thing that matters for maximum headroom is that your pre-amp clips at the same time as your amplifier.

 

[Seth=L]

I am not sure if the sensitivity numbers your quoted are correct but the MC402 is a power amp so it should not have phono input. If you meant preamp input then if your numbers (2V for the 402 and 1.5V for the A2) are correct, then you have found the reason, because the 402 is then 1/3 less sensitive than the A2 therefore requires more gain (higher volume) to achieve the same SPL.

Woops, I had that backwards.

 

[allEars]

Woops, I had that backwards.

You guys were right on the money. The Mcintosh runs at 2watts through the unbalanced cables and 4watts with the balanced cables. The Anthem was the reversed. I noticed that the anthem was louder when I switched to balanced cables.

 

[PENG]

thank you Peng. My Processor is the Mcintosh MX135, is the 4V a configurable setting? I got home late last night from picking it up in the States, I haven't had it too loud.
I was looking for this particular unit but was unable to find one locally (Ontario, Canada) so I drove 5 hours each way to pick it up. It was a great fun day with the family, one that we are going to look back and smile about it. The most I have seen the meter hit was 40 but I am sure I will change that today.

I don't think it is something that needs to be configurable. The output from the MX135 is going to vary according to the volume and/or trim controls as well as the incoming signal. When the input (or preamp output) reaches 4V, the 402 should theoretically output 400W. When you change the source, e.g. from CD input to phono input, you will likely have to re-adjust the volume in order to get back to your preferred listening level.

Thanks for the info about the meter reading. I am not surprises it only hit 40 for you so far. I don't have build in meters on my gear, but using external meters I saw up to the 60 to 80 (calculated) when listening to music in stereo mode at average SPLs of 85 to 95 dB from 12 ft. So I know I have more power than I need to avoid clippings. In your case McIntosh has the 'Power Guard' system that claims to prevent clipping altogether. It is hard to convince people while more power is better, it is only going to make a diference if your speakers need that extra power, and that it is mostly for the peaks. Regardless, people still think their speakers sound better even at lower level with a more power. To me if they notice the difference it would be because of the better quality amp, not because of the extra power that are not called for. Anyway, with what you have now you can ignore any such talks, knowing that you have all bases cover. Now you only have to upgrade your speakers, to get the best out of your dream class electronics. Of course I mean potentially only, no pun intended, I am sure you have nice speakers already.......

 

[allEars]

I don't think it is something that needs to be configurable. The output from the MX135 is going to vary according to the volume and/or trim controls as well as the incoming signal. When the input (or preamp output) reaches 4V, the 402 should theoretically output 400W. When you change the source, e.g. from CD input to phono input, you will likely have to re-adjust the volume in order to get back to your preferred listening level.

Thanks for the info about the meter reading. I am not surprises it only hit 40 for you so far. I don't have build in meters on my gear, but using external meters I saw up to the 60 to 80 (calculated) when listening to music in stereo mode at average SPLs of 85 to 95 dB from 12 ft. So I know I have more power than I need to avoid clippings. In your case McIntosh has the 'Power Guard' system that claims to prevent clipping altogether. It is hard to convince people while more power is better, it is only going to make a diference if your speakers need that extra power, and that it is mostly for the peaks. Regardless, people still think their speakers sound better even at lower level with a more power. To me if they notice the difference it would be because of the better quality amp, not because of the extra power that are not called for. Anyway, with what you have now you can ignore any such talks, knowing that you have all bases cover. Now you only have to upgrade your speakers, to get the best out of your dream class electronics. Of course I mean potentially only, no pun intended, I am sure you have nice speakers already.......

This is one hobby that keeps draining my wallet. I am using Paradigm Studios 60, when I crank the volume the speakers seem to be moving very little but now I started to look into B&W 803s. Someone please stop me

 

[Seth=L]

Someone please stop me

Stop.

 

[PENG]

This is one hobby that keeps draining my wallet. I am using Paradigm Studios 60, when I crank the volume the speakers seem to be moving very little but now I started to look into B&W 803s. Someone please stop me

Stop! Look into the D series instead. With the MX135 and MC402 on hand you are well qualified for a pair of Paradigm S8 or B&W 803D. They do recommend up to 500W for the D series but I am sure the 402 can do the job. Now this is assuming WAF is not an issue like it is for a lot of people in this hobby.