Suggestions for a Front Projector

[Francious70]

I'm helping my dad set up a media room in his house that's being built, and right now he on the television part. It's a choice between a LCD or a front projector. The screen is going to need to be at least 50", so that puts us into the $3k price range for LCD's. I can help him if he wants to get an LCD, but I don't know jack about front projectors, so can someone reccomend me some in the $1k - $2k price range?

 

[Spiffyfast]

Does he have if not all, then almost all, control over the light in the room?

 

[Francious70]

All lighting will be completely controlable.

 

[brian32672]

In that case there are tons that you can buy. Up to the 2K range
Anything as far as connections, size screen, features, etc.. that you are looking for??...
16:9 or 4:3 ?

EDIT:: Also is the 2K a budget just for projector or screen and projector?
EDIT #2:: Will it be on a table top? Or ceiling mounted?
Screen options:ainted wall, goo painted system, manual pull down, manual pull up, electric flush mounted ceiling, electric hanging ceiling, tripod mounted, fixed wall mounted. Also different gain levels from 0.6 to 5.0 and above. But for a controlled room 1.0 is fine. Also high contrast, glass bead, matte white, etc..

 

[brian32672]

The 2 most popular at this time in the price range for 16:9 are the InFocus SP 4805 and the Optoma H31

For 4:3 I would say the NEC HT1100 (a little higher price range), or the Optoma H57

Good thing with the HT100 is its very versatile, a seperate anamorphic lens can be purchased for a true 16:9. So if you like a mixed content of 4:3 and 16:9 this may be an option.

However 99.99% of the 16:9 or 4:3 native projectors will be able to view the other format, it just won't be native to the chip and lens set-up. So if you get 16:9 you can still watch 4:3 material it will just have black bars on sides, and vice-versa for a 4:3 projector

 

[BMXTRIX]

Your next stop to do a LOT of reading:

www.projectorcentral.com

Great site, decent forums (not as techie as www.avsforum.com is) and tons of reviews and information on front projection.

Front projection requires a near dark environment. Theater black is optimal for best results. A 'home theater' isn't ideal in the family room or in a bright area of the home. You can use a family room, but it is best to have another TV in there to use during the daytime, and only use the screen after dark or with the shades (blackout style) pulled tightly closed.

For $3,000 you can do a complete front projection setup with surround sound, speakers, and 100" screen. It is killer, but has the lighting limitations listed.

 

[brian32672]

Front projection requires a near dark environment.

I disagree, I have a 3,000 lumen PJ and it is perfectly fine with a lot of ambient light. But this kind of lumen is out of this price range.

Theater black is optimal for best results.

Totally agree with this

A 'home theater' isn't ideal in the family room or in a bright area of the home. You can use a family room, but it is best to have another TV in there to use during the daytime, and only use the screen after dark or with the shades (blackout style) pulled tightly closed.

See first disagreement.

For $3,000 you can do a complete front projection setup with surround sound, speakers, and 100" screen. It is killer, but has the lighting limitations listed.

Yep, for 3K you can usually find packages that will include a screen, or a extra bulb, or a extended warranty, and or a combination of all.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm not saying that it doesn't work at all in a bright room, but when you add light into a room, contrast ratio is crushed. In your family room, if it is bright, you can expect contrast ratios closer to 20:1. This is worthless for decent movie watching.

The contrast ratios listed on projectors are based on projection in a 100% dark environment and mean absolutely nothing when you start adding light to a room.

 

[brian32672]

Well I think 20:1 is kinda going overboard. Certainly may cut the contrast in half, but in 1:00 in the afternoon I have plenty of enjoyment with plenty of of ambient light and still great contrast ratio.

But yes, even a family room at 7:00 at night and no real stray street lights coming in or with normal shades pulled down would be fine.

That is another question, is this going to be primarily used at night. Will there still be another TV for regular daytime viewing.

Either way, you did say that light will be totally controllable. So lumen count is not really a factor. 500-800 should be perfectly fine.

Is bulb replacement an issue? How many hours a day will your dad use this?
If its going to be 7 hours or more a day about 5 days a week, then you may want to research bulb prices. However this topic on bulb hours has been covered many times, just do a quick search in the forums here.

 

[brian32672]

As far as contrast ratio, the more the better.

Key, with LCD 800:1 is great, DLP at least 2000:1
For better contrast in your price range look for at least 1200:1 in LCD even better 2000:1
and with DLP go with at least 3000:1

 

[Francious70]

Alright. This will be going in a living room and the projector would be celing mounted.

It would be a 16x9

He dosen't want an incredible large screen, he said about 60" or so would be fine.

The screen would have to be an electric retractible kind.

Thanks for the link BMX, and thanks for the help Brian

 

[brian32672]

Well this is a good deal, and Audioholic members get 50.00 rebate and free shipping. Not sure if everyone gets this deal. Anyhow its 1029.00 free shipping before rebate I think and 3yr warranty. The H31 Optoma

Link for Visual Apex.
http://www.visualapex.com/audioholics/

Link for specs
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-H31.htm

A electric 60" will take me time to find. So for now here is a electric 92"
It states IR remote, trust me it also comes with a RF remote and a wall controller. And the casing is all black and has the ever so needed 2" black border. This is the Visual Apex link, however I think it can be had a little cheaper.
http://www.visualapex.com/accessories/accessory_details.asp?chPartNumber=VMAX92UWH&MFR=Elite&Type=Screens

Here is a 66" at Visual Apex. However for the odd size it is more money than a standard 92"
http://www.visualapex.com/accessories/accessory_details.asp?chPartNumber=Home75IWH&MFR=Elite&Type=Screens

Total for above would come to about 1600.00 with shipping.
Now you need to get a HDMI or DVI cord. (70.00 to 225.00)
Link http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-High-Quality-30FT-HDMI-to-DVI-HDTV-Cable-30-Gold_W0QQitemZ5798664965QQcategoryZ73387QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and a ceiling mount could use a universal for (70-85.00)

This link is for 157.00 and is made for the H31 however there are some great universals on eBay for much cheaper
http://store.digital-orange.com/dhsp80a02001.html

EDIT::: So total for all will put you in the 2K ballpark.....

[Edit: Go through this link for an Audioholics Member discount. - Admin]

 

[BMXTRIX]

Well I think 20:1 is kinda going overboard. Certainly may cut the contrast in half, but in 1:00 in the afternoon I have plenty of enjoyment with plenty of of ambient light and still great contrast ratio.

This is a common misconception. Ambient light KILLS contrast ratios.

Read:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp_update6.htm

QUOTE:
"The consumer should bear in mind that while high contrast is critically important for high quality video presentation in a darkened environment, it is entirely irrelevant in commercial data presentation in a fully or partially lit room. Once you have lights on in the room, black levels get hammered, and the real contrast on the screen usually drops to well below 20:1 no matter what the theoretical contrast rating on the projector is. For "lights on" data presentations, adequate lumen output is essential, and contrast is meaningless."

This is especially notworthy if you have a good home theater projector or have calibrated top end projectors. When the lights come up, you really see how details are really lost. I think that people overstate the quality of a projector in a lit environment. If someone walks into Best Buy and sees the rear projection DLP units, then think they will get similar performance, in similar lighting conditions, with a H31 or SP4805, they will be very disappointed, and possibly angry about the quality.

HOW MUCH LIGHT IS IN THE ROOM ??? It really matters.

 

[brian32672]

This is a common misconception. Ambient light KILLS contrast ratios.

Read:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp_update6.htm

QUOTE:
"The consumer should bear in mind that while high contrast is critically important for high quality video presentation in a darkened environment, it is entirely irrelevant in commercial data presentation in a fully or partially lit room. Once you have lights on in the room, black levels get hammered, and the real contrast on the screen usually drops to well below 20:1 no matter what the theoretical contrast rating on the projector is. For "lights on" data presentations, adequate lumen output is essential, and contrast is meaningless."

This is especially notworthy if you have a good home theater projector or have calibrated top end projectors. When the lights come up, you really see how details are really lost. I think that people overstate the quality of a projector in a lit environment. If someone walks into Best Buy and sees the rear projection DLP units, then think they will get similar performance, in similar lighting conditions, with a H31 or SP4805, they will be very disappointed, and possibly angry about the quality.

HOW MUCH LIGHT IS IN THE ROOM ??? It really matters.

Fine... If you and projector central say so, Just I know that with some ambient light in my well lit condo and at 3000 lumens (probably 1900 to 2100 actual lumens) IT LOOKS PERFECTLY FINE, (on 120") and I would rather use it and easily enjoy a movie during the daytime over watching on the new HD 36" tv.

EDIT:: Granted mine is not even meant for HT. It is more for large venue also I have a much lower contrast at 2000:1 mine can be had now for about 2300.00 (Wish I would of got it for this price)
http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/doc/EP758/7595851.pdf

And the useless specs of mine are here
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-EzPro_758.htm

Once again, in his case this matters not. He states all light is controlable.

 

[brian32672]

If someone walks into Best Buy and sees the rear projection DLP units, then think they will get similar performance, in similar lighting conditions, with a H31 or SP4805, they will be very disappointed, and possibly angry about the quality.

HOW MUCH LIGHT IS IN THE ROOM ??? It really matters.

When a rear projection can be viewed with no degradation at up to 30 degrees of angle or more, maybe I'll buy one. Front projection does not have this problem.. at even up to 90 degrees, except with super high gain screens over 2.5, something the average home user will not buy. 0.6 to 1.3 is much more the norm.