Suggestions for 5.1 in small room

F

FWSIV

Enthusiast
Getting close to finishing the "Adult Lounge" and I'm starting to get my system picked out. I think I'll be going with a Marantz SR5004 for the AVR.

The room is small- about 12 across and 10 deep with an 8 foot ceiling for about 5 feet and then it slopes down to the bookcase/entertainment center, which is just over 4 feet tall.

For a sub- I'm looking at Velodyne (Impact mini) need a small footprint- about 11 inches wide would be the max width (depth/height not as critical- again it's a small room). The surrounds will be wall mounted.

Looking to spend around $1000-1300 for set-up (hopefully including sub).

Will listen to mostly music (wide variety- Marley to David Gray to Boney James), and will watch movies occasionally.

Biggest issue I see is that there are not many high end retailers in the area to go listen to speakers.

TIA
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Three pair of Behringer B2030P bookshelf studio monitors ($131/pr - $393 total shipped) used as left, center, right, 2 surrounds (and one spare). Add an eD A5s-300 compact sealed sub for $550 shipped and you're rocking for under $1000.

Later if you get energetic you can apply some of WmAx's mods to the Behringers.
 
F

FWSIV

Enthusiast
Three pair of Behringer B2030P bookshelf studio monitors ($131/pr - $393 total shipped) used as left, center, right, 2 surrounds (and one spare). Add an eD A5s-300 compact sealed sub for $550 shipped and you're rocking for under $1000.

Later if you get energetic you can apply some of WmAx's mods to the Behringers.
Seems like these are some of the favorites on this site. Do they sell front grills for these- I've searched and it doesn't seem like they do. Not sure if the wife will go with the look. Also, what about wall mounts. The rears need to be wall mounted- I could build a small shelf, but really don't want to do that.

Could you suggest a different center speaker option inplace of the 2030?

kind regards-
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I would take a look at the new SVS S Series package. The former setup was pretty much one of the GoTo systems for $1k and I have no doubt that the new one (though slightly more expensive) will also be a great value. The sub is the star of the packge, but the speakers are better than they should be for the price.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm (sorry just noticed they are backordered)

The 2030p setup is going to sound great, but they have the limitation of having no grills.
 
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sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Unfortunately the downside of Behringers is their appearance. That's not surprising because they were intended for professional recording studios. To answer your question there are no grills available and they don't make a dedicated center - most people just use a one of the bookshelves for that. They just sound really good for the price and the fact that they are front ported when means you can buy frame hangers and hang them like a picture if you want to - although I recommend felt pads on the back for isolation if you do.

The challenge is your (reasonable for the room size) price point so let's look at a couple of other options.

Option 1
Boston Acoustics CS26 bookshelf speakers ($80ea). I use these as my front left and right in my master bedroom. They are rear ported which means that they do need some space behind them but they are pretty decent speakers for the price. I wall hang mine from a PinPoint AM10 wall-mount. They make the CS225 ($180ish) dedicated center to match the CS26 and (FYI) it's critical that the 3 fronts be a timbre match. So we're up to $360ish and don't have surrounds yet. You have two decent options. 1) you could buy two more CS26s and AM10s and have surrounds perfectly matched to your fronts and would sound really great. The downside is you've spent $540 of your budget and still don't have a sub or receiver. Or, 2) you could could get by with some Wharfefdale WH2 dedicated surrounds for $80/pr. These Wharfedales aren't as good of a speaker the the CS26 but surrounds don't do that much work. I use these as my bedroom surrounds (for now) and they work fairly well with the Bostons. Not a bad choice, especially if space is tight. You'll still need the sub.

Option 2
Five Energy FPS wall hanging speakers. I haven't heard them but I suspect that they are roughly the same quality as the CS26. Anyway they have been discontinued and World Wide Stereo as them on clearance for $129 each. I believe that they do ship with grills but I can't swear to it. Because they are discontinued you'd have to take the plunge all at once ($650) or risk not being able to complete the set later. This is a fairly wife friendly option and I think paired with a good properly sized sub is a decent option.

Option 3
I always like to give a budget busting dream option as well. Just based on reviews I've been considering eventually upgrading my bedroom system to a pair of Usher Audio S-520 bookshelves ($400 shipped). The matched S-525 center is $380 shipped so we're up to almost $780 and still have a $550 sub to pay for. That's your whole budget but would be a nice way to go. That's just based on reviews. You can always add surrounds later. You could also shift a couple of hundred from your receiver budget by going with a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR707 ($480). Do read the full review and faceoff so you are aware the the limitations of these speaker but in a small room paired with a good sub and the crossover set correctly I suspect they would be sweet and very wife friendly. I'd probably try to go with something at this level and add surrounds later if it were my main listing room.

FYI: 2007 Bookshelf Speaker Faceoff

With all three of these options you'll want to set your receiver's crossover at 80hz or so and let the sub handle the deep bass. Also keep in mind that depending on the room you may eventually want to budget for some room treatments.
 
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F

FWSIV

Enthusiast
Here's another one that I came across that is similar to one that was reviewed last year by Clint. The difference would be in the sub- again this is a very small room and I'm not sure if I need a sub that would work in a much larger room. Similar price as the recommendation from Bored and jgarcia.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/epicmidi125.html
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
I think that Axiom system looks nice but not having heard it my guess is the sub is going to be marginal. That's a personal taste thing. I happen to like a sub that will dip below 20hz for movies. It's much less of a big deal for most music, but most people want room shaking bass for movies. However as a starter sub (and see how you like it long term) why not - you might find it's all the sub that you need or want. And even if worse comes to worse and you could always move the sub in your bedroom sometime down the road as the start of a bedroom system. Bored's suggestion has the same weakness - excellent speakers with a so-so sub. Then again if you have neighbors you don't want to tick off a weak sub can be a good thing. J_Garcia's suggestion has a great sub but it might physically too large for your room. I can't compare the speakers themselves - and speaker choice is sooooooo subjective. Some like a "bright" speaker (terms), others find bright speakers fatiguing and prefer a "warm" sound. Others want a perfectly neutral sound. Still others are attracted to the size of the "sound stage". That's what makes giving the "perfect" recommendation impossible. Everyone has different hearing and taste and in the end all that matters is what you like. I suggest google searches for reviews on all of the recommendations and look for attributes that you like and glaring deficiencies. This site may help you find reviews.
 
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F

FWSIV

Enthusiast
Sholling- thanks for the input-
I do get a kick out of posts for find me the perfect speaker, and what you say is so true (sometimes I swear the $5 bottle of wine tastes better than the $20), but then again I started this thread:eek:

Like I mentioned the room is very small and the sub footprint is coming into play- I guess I could always use it as a coffee table. Right now we just have a 5.0 system in the greatroom, so the sub experience will be new to us. With this thinking- I have a feeling that whatever I end up getting will sound awesome.
 
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J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I like the idea of 5x Ascend 170 SE. They wall mount very easily. They have grilles. That said, they are definitely not sexy by any means, and have a slight box-ish look to them. OTOH, they are a very good value.

For a sub, an idea that strikes me is to get one of those tapped horn type of subs, and use it as a riser! Well, that gets well past your price point, BUT if you are willing to DIY perhaps (with the aid of some experts here), and splurge a bit more cash, you can effectively have zero footprint, with enough bass to bring down the house. Well, just a crazy thought. :p
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
A smaller sub can always be placed behind the couch or somewhere else out of sight.

I do really like the Ascend 170SEs. These are fairly neutral sounding speakers and they are solid for the price.

I saw Rick Braun and Boney James together on the Shake it Up tour. Excellent show.
 
F

FWSIV

Enthusiast
Just to clarify- I'm budgeting around $1300 for speakers alone.

Another issue is the area around the TV- the room has a sloped ceiling, and I was planning on placing the center above the TV on the top of the bookcase/entertainment center- The problem is this doesn't give me much depth. Also, the fronts will need to go into the bookcase in openings that are roughly 21wx11.5dx11h. Rear ported speakers may be an issue in this location.

I think I need to fire the contractor that designed, built, and installed this mess :rolleyes:

j-garcia-
that sounds like a great concert- we just saw David Gray and I'd have to say that was one of the best shows I've seen in a long time.
 
A

audiok

Audiophyte
I'd look at PSB T45 towers and B25 for surround. Saturday Audio has very good price on them. I have the newer model, the T5, and am totally happy. They're very neutral. From what I read, T45 should be very similar - if so it'll produce huge soundstage, sweet mid and treb.
Axiom sounds great, if you like a little bright speakers. I have a pair of Axiom M3v2's, and they sound beautiful in smaller room. The metal tweeter is a bit much sometimes, but now I believe the cause is my horible living room with big windows and glass door fireplace. Room EQ on the Marantz 5004 should deal with those effectively. I think the PSB T45 is currently unbeatable deal.
 
S

Scabbage

Banned
My Aperion speakers have been great performers over the last few years -- currently looking for decent surrounds to add to the mix. Then perhaps also a center channel.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I'd look at PSB T45 towers and B25 for surround. Saturday Audio has very good price on them. I have the newer model, the T5, and am totally happy. They're very neutral. From what I read, T45 should be very similar - if so it'll produce huge soundstage, sweet mid and treb.
Axiom sounds great, if you like a little bright speakers. I have a pair of Axiom M3v2's, and they sound beautiful in smaller room. The metal tweeter is a bit much sometimes, but now I believe the cause is my horible living room with big windows and glass door fireplace. Room EQ on the Marantz 5004 should deal with those effectively. I think the PSB T45 is currently unbeatable deal.
I use a PSB Image setup for my HT. The B25s I think are going to be too large for the OP in this modest space. I mean, they're pretty darn big for bookshelves in this price point category. Also, one cannot easily wall mount these, unless he is willing to drill into the speaker itself. I actually asked PSB about doing this, and if anyone wants to know the directions they gave me, I will be happy to share. I remember they instructed me to remove the woofer, so as to get rid of all the dust/debris from the inside after drilling.

Only subjectively, I believe the Ascend 170SE quite outperforms the PSB as far as offaxis response. Otherwise, I think you are right that he would be happy with either choice, but here, the Ascend are less money, easy to wall mount, and arguably superior (if only by my anecdote), though they obviously won't extend as much. Then again, if he is intending on bookshelf stands, then perhaps it becomes similar in price after all.

Now, the Alphas have keyholes, which I ended up buying to replace B25 rear speakers, in order to ceiling mount. I wish I just kept the older b25s and drilled. The Ascend 170SE is waaay better than the Alphas, IMO . . .
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Just to clarify- I'm budgeting around $1300 for speakers alone.

Another issue is the area around the TV- the room has a sloped ceiling, and I was planning on placing the center above the TV on the top of the bookcase/entertainment center- The problem is this doesn't give me much depth. Also, the fronts will need to go into the bookcase in openings that are roughly 21wx11.5dx11h. Rear ported speakers may be an issue in this location.
Rear ported speakers usually will not work well in a cubbyhole. You'll have to try looking for front ported speakers if you can't find a better spot. I can list a few but I can't begin to tell you how they compare. You'll have see which have front ported centers. And of course there may be more that I'm not aware off off the top of my head.

Behringer B2030P
Energy FPS ($129ea)
Infinity Primus P162 ($200/pr)
Mordaunt Short Carnival 2 ($250/pr)
Usher Audio S520 (400/pr)
Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 (discontinued but ~$250/pr)

The Behringers do need a wee bit of work to get them to sound their best and do not have a dedicated center. Perhaps someone could comment on the others or add a few front ported selections of their own.
 
F

FWSIV

Enthusiast
Rear ported speakers usually will not work well in a cubbyhole. You'll have to try looking for front ported speakers if you can't find a better spot. I can list a few but I can't begin to tell you how they compare. You'll have see which have front ported centers. And of course there may be more that I'm not aware off off the top of my head.

Behringer B2030P
Energy FPS ($129ea)
Infinity Primus P162 ($200/pr)
Mordaunt Short Carnival 2 ($250/pr)
Usher Audio S520 (400/pr)
Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 (discontinued but ~$250/pr)

The Behringers do need a wee bit of work to get them to sound their best and do not have a dedicated center. Perhaps someone could comment on the others or add a few front ported selections of their own.
It looks like Definitive Technology would work- plus there are some dealers in the area (at least not that far) so I could listen to the speakers. I do have a question regarding the sub hook-up on these- is the LFE used for the SW preout from the receiver?

Also checked out some Aperion setups that would fit the bill.
 
F

FWSIV

Enthusiast
It looks like Definitive Technology would work- plus there are some dealers in the area (at least not that far) so I could listen to the speakers. I do have a question regarding the sub hook-up on these- is the LFE used for the SW preout from the receiver?

Also checked out some Aperion setups that would fit the bill.
Finally got to check out some speakers-
The problem I'm finding is that most small speakers, under 11" tall, are rear ported and would probably not be the right choice to place inside this cabinet. Listened to some KEF C1's that sounded very good and were front ported, also listened to some DT SM350 that have the 8" side radiator that could work.
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
I'd suggest looking into speakers designed for wall mounting. If you have to mount your surrounds and put the fronts in a bookshelf, you need more than just front porting. Speaker crossovers are normally tuned with a few dB taken off the midrange to balance with the bass (called baffle step compensation). If you put those speakers close to a room boundary, you'll gain more bass and the midrange will sound too quiet. A speaker designed to go on the wall will have less or no midrange cut and be more balanced in your room.

Jim
 

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