Subwoofer to work with the LS50

[PENG]

I think I will focus on products from SVS, Rythmik, JL Audio or PSA. Would like to hear from audioholics who have experience with at least two or more of those products, preferable sealed type.

 

[Ponzio]

originally paired my LS50's with a SVS PB12-NSD, per the SVS web matching wizard utility, and it was fantastic but it also worked well with my Focal LCR setup and I left it there in my main HT room; so now I'm on the lookout for another one or a SB12-NSD or SB-2000. You really can't go wrong with any of those models, spec wise.

 

[billy p]

I think I will focus on products from SVS, Rythmik, JL Audio or PSA. Would like to hear from audioholics who have experience with at least two or more of those products, preferable sealed type.

Hi Peng, I'm not entirely a homer when it comes to making a recommending but based on the subs from your list..I'd say your looking at a pretty fair budget. For my money, I would go with either Rythmik E12/E15 or PSA S1500...I do feel the other two would cost a fair bit more but not really offer much, if any advantages IMO. I've had some limited experiences(about 4 months) with both SB13U and the XS30se and I would chose the PSA...based on those experiences. Granted....at the time I had the SB13U on tap I didn't have the "SE" version drive units on my sub and they really leveled the playing field. I know several guys from the Ascend forum and they rave about the Rythmik subs...I personally don't have any on hand experiences with those "said products" but the added control the servo technology might be what you're looking for.

The only person that I know whom is well versed with all these subs would be Jim Wilson or aka: Jman around these parts. I know for music he preferred the E15 over the SB13U and he has reviewed both the JL and PSA XS15se....IIRC.


Shoot him a PM or maybe he'll chime in...if he sees this thread.

Anyways I think PSA will give you the best shipping price to your door or just go with the Rythmik. This way I can come over and finally hear one for myself...lol. I would dearly love to hear a Rythmik product....Lord knows, I was oh so close to buying the F15HP if it only came in anything but black.

Good luck...Bill

Btw...full array of measurements are available at Databass for you to look over but you can see these 3 subs measure very close when you overlay their numbers.

 

[shadyJ]

I think I will focus on products from SVS, Rythmik, JL Audio or PSA. Would like to hear from audioholics who have experience with at least two or more of those products, preferable sealed type.

In that bunch my first choice would be Rythmik by far, but I would also be looking at the sealed subs from Reaction and Hsu.

 

[billy p]

In that bunch my first choice would be Rythmik by far, but I would also be looking at the sealed subs from Reaction and Hsu.

Not surprised you found yourself vested in this thread...lol. Did you actually read the portion where the OP states that he would like to Focus on the following manufactures. Please share with us any experiences with the said products. Lastly the OP resides in Ontario...Hsu makes no sense with all the added shipping cost he will incur....even the SB13U would look like a value player...after the fact. Btw...I like what RA is doing have you heard any of their products or are you being your usual self....mostly theory and little substance!



Cheers...Bill

Ps: I'll have the opportunity to listen to some Reaction Audio locally in the coming weeks...they'll include RA CX-12T, Echo-18 and the Gamma-218.

I could share or discuss any of those RA products...with Peng after I've heard them & when the time comes...if he'd like.

 

[shadyJ]

Not surprised you found yourself vested in this thread...lol. Did you actually read the portion where the OP states that he would like to Focus on the following manufactures. Please share with us any experiences with the said products. Lastly the OP resides in Ontario...Hsu makes no sense with all the added shipping cost he will incur....even the SB13U would look like a value player...after the fact. Btw...I like what RA is doing have you heard any of their products or are you being your usual self....mostly theory and little substance!



Cheers...Bill

Ps: I'll have the opportunity to listen to some Reaction Audio locally in the coming weeks...they'll include RA CX-12T, Echo-18 and the Gamma-218.

I could share or discuss any of those RA products...with Peng after I've heard them & when the time comes...if he'd like.

I am just advocating for the product which will likely offer the best performance. It also doesn't hurt that Rythmik subs look nice as well. Its well worth the extra cost over other subs. The Hsu ULS are great performers as well, and certainly worth consideration even with added shipping expenses. The Reaction subs look to be very high bang for the buck. I don't know why you are so offended by my recommendations?

 

[3db]

I am just advocating for the product which will likely offer the best performance. It also doesn't hurt that Rythmik subs look nice as well. Its well worth the extra cost over other subs. The Hsu ULS are great performers as well, and certainly worth consideration even with added shipping expenses. The Reaction subs look to be very high bang for the buck. I don't know why you are so offended by my recommendations?

Are you going to pay shipping for PENG? The cost/duty and shipping is truly prohibitively expensive, especially now that the Canadian dollar is sucking eggs compared to the US.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Although not on the list of choices, I would recommend a Funk Sub w/ External amp.

 

[billy p]

Although not on the list of choices, I would recommend a Funk Sub w/ External amp.

That's entirely up to him...pretty sure he'll have no trouble finding an amp to power up a brand new passive 18.0C....if he wants to go that route. He recently traveled down this road and settled on a new PB13U...I'm sure he has researched all the usual contender and why he came up with a short and specific list.....

As I already stated....I'd reach out to Jim Wilson.

 

[billy p]

I am just advocating for the product which will likely offer the best performance. It also doesn't hurt that Rythmik subs look nice as well. Its well worth the extra cost over other subs. The Hsu ULS are great performers as well, and certainly worth consideration even with added shipping expenses. The Reaction subs look to be very high bang for the buck. I don't know why you are so offended by my recommendations?

Offended....Au contraire mom ami....

Yup... very excited to heard those Reaction Audio subs for myself....I'll let you know how they sound, if you're willing! AAMOF there may be an Hsu VFT15 Mk2 on tap during the GTG...likely another sub you'll not have heard...yet...lol.

 

[PENG]

I am just advocating for the product which will likely offer the best performance. It also doesn't hurt that Rythmik subs look nice as well. Its well worth the extra cost over other subs. The Hsu ULS are great performers as well, and certainly worth consideration even with added shipping expenses. The Reaction subs look to be very high bang for the buck. I don't know why you are so offended by my recommendations?

I do appreciate your inputs. I think Billy just know me too well. He know I typically do my own research and only ask for opinions when I really need them for tie breaking etc. In this case I find it hard to choose between the servo technology, the good look (my subjective preference) of the SVS, the seemingly best price/performance ratio of the PSA and the good look and miniature size of the JLA. I think due to WAF, the JLA and SB13U are out. The SB2000 is still in the run, hoping to hear from someone who has compared it with one of the others. I am very curious about the servo ones though.

 

[PENG]

Are you going to pay shipping for PENG? The cost/duty and shipping is truly prohibitively expensive, especially now that the Canadian dollar is sucking eggs compared to the US.

Unfortunately I just found out the E15HP's all inclusive shipping/taxes cost over USD 400 too. I may have to settle for one SB1000 and add a second later but am really tempted by the servo technology. One F12 first and add a second later could be a viable option though it will cost more in the end.

 

[billy p]

Hi Peng...you could look into getting the 12" sealed units from Rythmik...can't see you regretting making that decision. I will say this though about my dealing with PSA...they discounted my sub roughly the cost of the free shipping offer for those stateside...but much like your Rythmik " price quote" the other charges unfortunately quickly add up. I will say this....that if you're already enjoying the ultra in your home it would likely be a drop-off in terms of refinement and SQ going with the lesser Svs(SB2000) unit...IMHO.

 

[PENG]

Hi Peng...you could look into getting the 12" sealed units from Rythmik...can't see you regretting making that decision. I will say this though about my dealing with PSA...they discounted my sub roughly the cost of the free shipping offer for those stateside...but much like your Rythmik " price quote" the other charges unfortunately quickly add up. I will say this....that if you're already enjoying the ultra in your home it would likely be a drop-off in terms of refinement and SQ going with the lesser Svs(SB2000) unit...IMHO.

I am in fact seriously considering the F12 or F12SE. The L12 in my last post was a typo that I just fixed. I can't find any review data for the F12 yet but according to Rythmik it should perform the same as the E15/E15HP except for the lower output.

 

[PENG]

Are you going to pay shipping for PENG? The cost/duty and shipping is truly prohibitively expensive, especially now that the Canadian dollar is sucking eggs compared to the US.

Is your LV12R for HT or music or both? That seems to be the only sub that the website shows the shipping and duty price of USD 120 and that's a good deal. The shipping and duty of the F12 and the E15 are horrendous.

 

[3db]

Is your LV12R for HT or music or both? That seems to be the only sub that the website shows the shipping and duty price of USD 120 and that's a good deal. The shipping and duty of the F12 and the E15 are horrendous.

I use it mainly for HT but it really is tight enough for music. I always turn it on when playing Bach's organ music like the Toccata (probably mispelled that) and love the sound.

 

[KEW]

Peng, I can offer some personal experience with some of your contending companies.

First, I am assuming you are looking for a musical, tight sub since you mentioned a preference for sealed.

I started with an SVS SB-12Plus. I was thoroughly disappointed with its performance in that the rumble is overcooked. I think this is a deliberate decision of SVS to add "power" to the bass, which certainly has an appeal and can be fun for HT. The other possibility is their efforts to EQ for bass result in ringing in the lower frequencies (20's). I ended up using the PEQ on the SB-12plus to cut the frequencies in the 20Hz region. I loss some extension, but got a sub that didn't get in the way of hearing the music. If you look at the chart below, the smaller window (sorry, but it is all I could find) is the pulse response of the SVS SB 12plus. You can see how there is overhang in the 20-30Hz area (the low end of graph is 16Hz vs 8Hz for the later graphs). This chart is off of XTZ's site.

Here is the SB1000 as measured by Jim Wilson. I don't know if measurement methods are comparable, but the overhang is there, regardless:

And here is the SVS SB13 Ultra (Jim Wilson). Much, much cleaner, but still some bass bloom in the bottom octave. You can see why I wonder if SVS made a design decision to emphasize the low end:

Here is Jims measurement of the Rythmik E15HP. You can see how quickly it drops below 80dB (bright yellow). It is very balanced across frequencies and exhibits strong presence down to 8Hz. This is the best I have seen. I have a pair of these and really love the way they handle low bass for music. I no longer feel the need to EQ out the bottom octave (that is not totally true, because there are some recordings out there that are way too hot in the bottom octave, mostly hip-hop, rap, etc.):

Here is Jim's comparison of the SB13 Ultra vs E15HP:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1471574-rythmik-e15-vs-svs-sb13-ultra-4.html#post24544440

2nd post to follow.

 

[KEW]

Have a look at PSA XS15se (Jim Wilson again):

Now take a look at the JL Audio E112 (Jim Wilson). It is worse than the Ultra and doesn't come close to the much less expensive PSA!

I have a pair of these, and while the build quality is impressive and there is no doubting prodigious bass from such small boxes, I am very disappointed with these subwoofers' lack of musicality. I really expected such an overbuilt driver to provide exemplary performance, but not so. If you are all about HT and need WAF the JL Audio's are great!

Here are the Rythmik's atop the JLA's set up for A-B level matched comparison (2 Denon's with MultEQ XT32). I had the larger Rythmiks on the bottom, but wanted to be certain location was not the reason the Rythmiks were so much tighter - I reversed them and it wasn't.

Some may criticize that I am putting too much emphasis on the pulse response and ignoring output and extension, but, honestly, among the mentioned PSA and Rythmik subs and sb13ultra, I can't see reason to get too worried over output or extension - especially with music, but they would not short you on HT unless you were after the resonance SVS and JL Audio add (which can be thrilling).
In my frustrating experience looking for a truly good musical sub, this one chart made sense of everything I had experienced.

IMHO, anyone looking for a quality musical sub should be looking at sealed subwoofers from PSA or Rythmik.
I am assuming that other PSA sealed subs retain the pulse performance of the XS15se, and that the servo technology in the E15HP give consistent results with the other sealed Rythmiks.

If you check the Rythmik site you will note that their vented subs are listed as for HT, but not music. Brian seems to be refreshingly obsessed with music sound being just so.
Here is Jim's review and measurements of the LV12R:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/67309-rythmik-lv12r-subwoofer-review.html

PS Do you still have the Focals? Do you run a sub with them?

 

[billy p]

Very nice synopsis of all the subs....Kurt. If you connect the dots surrounding all 4 subs the XS15se @ 749.00 is a very good deal...even better prices can be found on some "B" stock models in the outlet store.

Food for thought...

 

[PENG]

IMHO, anyone looking for a quality musical sub should be looking at sealed subwoofers from PSA or Rythmik.
I am assuming that other PSA sealed subs retain the pulse performance of the XS15se, and that the servo technology in the E15HP give consistent results with the other sealed Rythmiks.

If you check the Rythmik site you will note that their vented subs are listed as for HT, but not music. Brian seems to be refreshingly obsessed with music sound being just so.
Here is Jim's review and measurements of the LV12R:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/67309-rythmik-lv12r-subwoofer-review.html

PS Do you still have the Focals? Do you run a sub with them?

I was looking for some tie breaker reasons and I guess you managed to provide some. So thanks to you and Billy, now I can narrow things down to the F12SE, E15HP or the XS15se.

Do you believe two F12SE will be better than one E15HP for my pair of LS50? Have you seen any graphs for the F12's?

Thanks again!