Subwoofer recommendations

[zilla]

Guys, I'm a home theater newb but have been reading up and doing my homework here for about a week or two. Thus far I've learned a ton and have enjoyed every moment of it. I started here like so many others, with the simple intention of getting an HTIB and keeping it simple. Ha... that didn't last long

Here's where I'm at now, after much thought and consideration here's what I'm about to pull the trigger on...

Reciever: Pioneer VSX-1015TXK

Center: Athena AS-C1.2
Front: Athena AS-F1.2
Surrounds: Athena AS-B1.2
Back: Athena AS-R1.2


And all that is missing is a sub...

What do you guys recommend for around... 3 to 5 hundo?

Should mention, system will be used almost exclusively for HT and gaming.


Thanks!

 

[jaxvon]

I'd have to say the SVS PB-10ISD. 20Hz extension anechoically = pounding bass for movies and games. It shouldn't be any slouch on the music either, but the low extention will make you happy when you want the mega rumbles.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I'd have to say the SVS PB-10ISD. 20Hz extension anechoically = pounding bass for movies and games. It shouldn't be any slouch on the music either, but the low extention will make you happy when you want the mega rumbles.

Jaxvon,

Not necessarily. When that sub drops down to 20Hz, it lacks that pounding bass that it can produce at 30-45Hz. It gets down to 20Hz because of the large cabinet, but IMO runs out of steam at that point with the class D amp pushing the driver. I'd take a 25Hz 12" class A/B in it's place, or go a few models up if you prefer SVS. I'd love to do a comparo of the Velodyne DPS-12 side by side with the PB10 ISD. 200 watts at 1% thd is a lot different than 300 watts at 10% thd.

www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/specs/dps.html

 

[silversurfer]

Yeah, but we know better, it isn't all about the watts.

 

[jaxvon]

Glad you posted Buckeye...how was the whole SVS experience? Was the PB-10 just not that impressive?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Glad you posted Buckeye...how was the whole SVS experience? Was the PB-10 just not that impressive?

The SVS experience was pretty enlightening. To be fair, I'll wait for MacManNM to get back into town. He's in flight right now, and should be landing shortly. We'll start a new thread, and what we thought of each sub, how they handled music, movies, and test tones. Keep in mind, our review was dependant on the room, the source, and sub placement. I'm trying to figure out how to post the 20-30 pictures taken with a 4 megapixel camera. Can't seem to figure out the and jpeg relationship.

Update - Jaxvon, thanks for the pm. Photobucket worked great on resizing the pics to html/img.

 

[Duffinator]

The SVS experience was pretty enlightening. To be fair, I'll wait for MacManNM to get back into town. He's in flight right now, and should be landing shortly. We'll start a new thread, and what we thought of each sub, how they handled music, movies, and test tones. Keep in mind, our review was dependant on the room, the source, and sub placement. I'm trying to figure out how to post the 20-30 pictures taken with a 4 megapixel camera. Can't seem to figure out the

 

[mtrycrafts]

Jaxvon,

Not necessarily. When that sub drops down to 20Hz, it lacks that pounding bass that it can produce at 30-45Hz. It gets down to 20Hz because of the large cabinet, but IMO runs out of steam at that point with the class D amp pushing the driver. I'd take a 25Hz 12" class A/B in it's place, or go a few models up if you prefer SVS. I'd love to do a comparo of the Velodyne DPS-12 side by side with the PB10 ISD. 200 watts at 1% thd is a lot different than 300 watts at 10% thd.

www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/specs/dps.html

OK, what are the SPLs? Watts are irrelevant if the speaker is very sensitive it will put out, if it can handle the spl level. After all, speakers have limits too

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

OK, what are the SPLs? Watts are irrelevant if the speaker is very sensitive. It will put out, if it can handle the spl level. After all, speakers have limits too.

If - the key word. Let say, for example, SVS uses two of these on it's flagship unit. They don't post their driver specs, so this is a typical high end 12" car sub. Here's the specs:

size: 12"
voice coil: 3" 4-layer
impedance: 4 ohm-dual voice coil
spl @ 1W/1M: 87dB
magnet size: 200oz
power handling: 1500 watts rms

One can only hope (and assume) the manufacturer has paired the sub with the proper plate amp. How many HT subs have their spl ratings posted in the manual? How about amplifier power at a given thd? They're hard to find.

 

[j_garcia]

The PB-10 acutally has output to 18Hz in-room. I don't have a tone sweep to see what I'm getting, but it DEFINITELY has output at 20Hz, just not as authorative as something like one of the larger cylinders. The 10" driver is pretty impressive, though it simply cannot move as much air as the 12" models.

First question should have been: what are the dimensions of your room? That will be a big factor in whether a PB-10 will be enough or not.

 

[MacManNM]

The PB-10 acutally has output to 18Hz in-room. I don't have a tone sweep to see what I'm getting, but it DEFINITELY has output at 20Hz, just not as authorative as something like one of the larger cylinders. The 10" driver is pretty impressive, though it simply cannot move as much air as the 12" models.

First question should have been: what are the dimensions of your room? That will be a big factor in whether a PB-10 will be enough or not.

Any speaker will go low, the question really is, how useable is the output? If it's 6-10db down, not at all.

 

[j_garcia]

Well, according to SVS's chart, it's 90dB@ 20Hz, which is actually quite good and very usable. 18Hz is probably -6dB or more, because the drop off is pretty steep below 20Hz. The reality is, there are very few (if any) $430 subs that can do that, and many that cost much more that can't either.

 

[MacManNM]

Well, according to SVS's chart, it's 90dB@ 20Hz, which is actually quite good and very usable. 18Hz is probably -6dB or more, because the drop off is pretty steep below 20Hz. The reality is, there are very few (if any) $430 subs that can do that, and many that cost much more that can't either.

That is the -3db point, 20hz. @ 18hz, you are a total of 6db down that is not useable.

 

[zilla]

Room size is large, it's a game room primarily, with a table for poker or what have you on one end, and the big screen with loveseat and sofa on the other end. I'd say the overall depth is 40' width 12' I guess I'll need something that packs a wallop

 

[Takeereasy]

You might need two things that pack a wallop. 40' is a ton of space to be dealing with. You'll find that if you contact sub companies they will be able to suggest the best setup for a size that big. They'll want room size, dimensions, layout, equipment info etc.

 

[MacManNM]

For that amount of $$$ and that huge room I'd recomend getting 2 of the Cadence Xsub's. I doubt you could do much better even at 2x what they will cost you.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Jaxvon,

Not necessarily. When that sub drops down to 20Hz, it lacks that pounding bass that it can produce at 30-45Hz. It gets down to 20Hz because of the large cabinet, but IMO runs out of steam at that point with the class D amp pushing the driver. I'd take a 25Hz 12" class A/B in it's place, or go a few models up if you prefer SVS. I'd love to do a comparo of the Velodyne DPS-12 side by side with the PB10 ISD. 200 watts at 1% thd is a lot different than 300 watts at 10% thd.<<<


A quick note. All of the SVS amp ratings are done at <1% THD from the amp. I'm not sure which manufacturers rate their amplifiers with "10%" THD...or if there really are any?

We have tested/measured dozens of amps in just about every 'class" out there...the idea that a "class d" amplifier will "run out of steam" at 20hz isn't true. Perhaps a poorly designed class d amp will, but you can say that about any "class".

Tom V.
SVS

 

[j_garcia]

Hey, Tom!

Glad to see you over here too. One of the things I always loved about SVS is their major interaction with the public, both existing and potential customers.

40' is a pretty huge room. Even with SVS, you'd definitely need more than a single PB-10 to fill it up with a ton of bass.

 

[jaxvon]

I must've missed the room dimensions when I posted. I know too that a single 10" won't do justice for a 40' room. In that size of a room, I'd want a pair of 12" subs, if not a pair of dual 12s.

 

[zilla]

You didn't miss the room dimensions, they weren't there in the original post. I can't afford two 12's so I'll probably just stick with one and deal with the less than ideal amount of bass. It'll still be a massive improvement vs the 10 watt speakers in the tv

It's all relative I'm leaning toward the SVS only in 12"... we'll see though. Still have another week to decide.

And much thanks to everyone who has posted... lots of good info here