Subwoofer for a 17'x11'x10'(WxLxH) space within a 26.5'x17.5'x10' room ~ $600

[Typhoon859]

Hi guys! So, nothing too much more specific to mention here. Overall, there's a general standard when it comes to low frequency generators which makes it a lot easier to say that one subwoofer is better over another (how well the sound travels in whatever sized room, the frequency response, positioning of the port relative to the sitting position, etc...). What I can provide is a fairly accurate schematic of the room in which the subwoofer would likely be placed in the front left corner. That'll simply depend on where there'd be the most standing waves after I test it from the couch position. Any information and specific details from experience or otherwise would be helpful. Thank you!

PS- I'd like to mention that the $600 limit isn't including any potential deals based on past occurrences or whatever, so if you are aware of there even being the slightest chance of this, feel free to mention currently higher priced units. Thanks

EDIT: I currently have in my sights the SVS SB12-NSD. With hopefully a deal, maybe I could get it down to $600! I really did push my budget to its maximum here XD

 

[timoteo]

You word things odd!

I'd get the VTF-3MK4 (sale price $659)over the PB-12NSD myself. Or if that is over budget which it probably is then look into the VTF-2MK4 (sale price $519) If the PB-12NSD cant be had for a cheaper price then also look at the FV12 for $500. Unfortunately no matter which of these subs you get you will eventually need duals.

Your space is a total of over 4,000 cubic ft. Just because your theater space is smaller doesn't mean the sub know that. The sub will be trying to pressurize the entire space & will get a bit lost because if that. So you need to approach this by filling the entire 26.5x17x10 space. Duals will be needed to have the correct headroom & dynamics.

A single VTF-3MK4 will sound decent IMO in there. Duals will sound great. Dual FV12s won't be bad & will run you just over $1000 in the end. A single sub in your price range can be had with the intent of adding a second down the road when you can afford it.

I'm not trying to say you HAVE to spend more but you WILL be
limited in your bass with a room that size & a budget of $600 just so you know.

Also, is that space open to any other areas? If it is the. You need to include that space with your measurements because the bass will be trying to fill that area as well.

For instance, my theater area is 13.5x19.5x8 yet is open up to a few large areas. The total space my VTF-15H/MBM-12 combo are trying to fill totals 8,600cuft. Not easy to do but I'm am very impressed with the bass my HSU subs put out. It did however take a lot of different placement trials & some EQing to get Flat. You will need to make sure you find & place the sub/s in an optimal location.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

recently new AH member contacted hsu and they mentioned VTF-2MK4 should work with rooms up-to 5200 sqft
Would a single sub would "crush walls" and "punch you in groins" ?
Probably not, but it should be sufficient to get to 95%. The problem is to get the last 5% will require you to up the budget to at least dual subs to help normalize room response.

 

[CadenceSound]

Consider a dual sub setup from us, CSX MKII 12s..i can give you a nice deal, just drop me a PM..

 

[timoteo]

I just saw this same thread over on Home Theater Shack. That's when I noticed that in your original post you said you were considering the SB not PB-12. Do not put a single sealed 12" sub in that space if you want any sort of power for home theater. If it mainly for music then maybe. But you need dual ported subs to get the output that's gonna put a smile on your face. So at least start looking at some that I've recommended.

Ported subs from:
HSU Research
SVS
Rythmik
Outlaw
Maybe even Epik these are sealed but have dual drivers each cabinet but have a built in EQ that gives them more of a ported response (I don't care for them myself but some love them)

 

[Typhoon859]

You word things odd!

I'd get the VTF-3MK4 (sale price $659)over the PB-12NSD myself. Or if that is over budget which it probably is then look into the VTF-2MK4 (sale price $519) If the PB-12NSD cant be had for a cheaper price then also look at the FV12 for $500. Unfortunately no matter which of these subs you get you will eventually need duals.

Your space is a total of over 4,000 cubic ft. Just because your theater space is smaller doesn't mean the sub know that. The sub will be trying to pressurize the entire space & will get a bit lost because if that. So you need to approach this by filling the entire 26.5x17x10 space. Duals will be needed to have the correct headroom & dynamics.

A single VTF-3MK4 will sound decent IMO in there. Duals will sound great. Dual FV12s won't be bad & will run you just over $1000 in the end. A single sub in your price range can be had with the intent of adding a second down the road when you can afford it.

I'm not trying to say you HAVE to spend more but you WILL be
limited in your bass with a room that size & a budget of $600 just so you know.

Also, is that space open to any other areas? If it is the. You need to include that space with your measurements because the bass will be trying to fill that area as well.

For instance, my theater area is 13.5x19.5x8 yet is open up to a few large areas. The total space my VTF-15H/MBM-12 combo are trying to fill totals 8,600cuft. Not easy to do but I'm am very impressed with the bass my HSU subs put out. It did however take a lot of different placement trials & some EQing to get Flat. You will need to make sure you find & place the sub/s in an optimal location.

I just saw this same thread over on Home Theater Shack. That's when I noticed that in your original post you said you were considering the SB not PB-12. Do not put a single sealed 12" sub in that space if you want any sort of power for home theater. If it mainly for music then maybe. But you need dual ported subs to get the output that's gonna put a smile on your face. So at least start looking at some that I've recommended.

Ported subs from:
HSU Research
SVS
Rythmik
Outlaw
Maybe even Epik these are sealed but have dual drivers each cabinet but have a built in EQ that gives them more of a ported response (I don't care for them myself but some love them)

Wow... You pretty much said and listed WORD FOR WORD everything I was thinking and all the models I ended up considering. That's some really good reinforcement for my thoughts there, lol

This does in fact still leave me with the choice between all of those and for me the Epik Legend stood out because it seemed more like what I'd like in terms of music. I was put off after a few responses regarding the sealed 12" which I also realized, at least in regards to the SB-12, but you answered that lingering question here. I mean, once again, you said EVERYTHING. What I concluded from technical information, you said right there about the closed woofer that it might be nicer if mainly for music. This was awesome! Lol.

I also like that you didn't realize I wrote SB-12 right away because that's the first thing I realized right after I wrote it that I'd actually need the the PB-12 (which has actually been out there for deals as low as $500 before).

Maybe eventually I'll be able to make it dual. And GranteedEV from Home Theater Shack also suggested specifically the dual Rythmiks. We'll see.

Now that we're on the same page, if you can maybe water it down further for me? I'm not sure EXACTLY about some of the others but currently the Epik Legend is in front, followed by the HSU VTF-3 MK4, and finally the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX. How would you say a single FV12 compares to the latter two?


PS- I word things odd only for some Although, in this case, I must admit, it was a bit convoluted. It's just because it was like one sentence after another like that.. XD

recently new AH member contacted hsu and they mentioned VTF-2MK4 should work with rooms up-to 5200 sqft
Would a single sub would "crush walls" and "punch you in groins" ?
Probably not, but it should be sufficient to get to 95%. The problem is to get the last 5% will require you to up the budget to at least dual subs to help normalize room response.

Thanks!

I was wondering just that, if the VTF-2 would be sufficient enough. Without the specifics, I figured I'd need at least the VTF-3 though.

 

[timoteo]

This exact discussion on which of these is best has been discussed many times on this thread. I'd recommend looking back a bit & reading through those posts. They were discussed not long ago too. I'd say probably still on the first or second page.

It's pretty much splitting hairs once you get to the VTF-3MK4, LFM-1EX, FV12 & PB-12NSD. The Epiks are loud but don't play very deep, plus they don't have the best track record as far as their amps are concerned. I can't recommend Epik myself because of a lot of what I've read but research them yourself before making a judgement call.

I have sat & listened to almost every sub the HSU makes & was thoroughly impressed with each in there catagory!! So I can easily recommend HSU. But like I mentioned, the Rythmik SVS & Outlaw are right there. If you can still get the LFM-1EX on sale that's a good buy!

 

[FirstReflection]

I'm not sure whether your $600 budget includes shipping costs or not.

Just in terms of getting a sub that is capable of enough output to handle your room size (which, as mentioned, must be considered the entire open space and not just the area that is designated as the "theater area"), I'd agree that you want to be considering the SVSound PB12-NSD, HSU VTF-3 MK4 and Outlaw LFM-1 EX most highly.

To be perfectly honest, in that room size, I'd personally want something closer to an SVSound PB12-Plus, but that sub - and other subs like it - are considerably well above your intended budget.

Once you factor in shipping, it's worth noting that the SVSound PB12-NSD and PC12-NSD cylinder version are not really that much more expensive than the HSU or Outlaw options. The PC12-NSD cylinder is an especially flexible sub in terms of placement options given its small footprint and ability to lay on its side as well if you want to tuck it behind a couch or along the edge of a wall. It's a tiny bit cheaper than the PB12-NSD box version as well.

I'm a bit partial to SVSound's current offerings as their "Sledge" amps really are a cut above. Also worth mentioning in a room size such as yours is that the SVSound subs are "unbreakable". The amps are very well protected by that DSP and its limiters so that the sub will never play louder than a safe and distortion-free level. You can literally crank the volume knob as high as it will go without worry. While the NSD sub might not be able to play quite as loud as some folks would want in a room this size, what it WILL do is play as loud as it possibly can without distorting heavily or "bottoming out" in any way. So it's a very safe choice in that respect.

That said, the HSU VTF-3 MK4 is the most adjustable sub in the bunch. It has a plethora of nice filters that can really help to tune the low end output of the sub to your situation.

Regardless, if you go with the SVSound PB or PC12-NSD, HSU VTF-3 MK4 or Outlaw LFM-1 EX, you will be getting a very good sub that should be able to cope with your room size quite nicely. Personally, I'd favor either the SVSound PC12-NSD cylinder for its handy shape that gives it greater placement flexibility, or the HSU VTF-3 MK4 for it's greater choice of low end filter options that allow you to better "tune" it to any room.

Hope that helps!

 

[Typhoon859]

This exact discussion on which of these is best has been discussed many times on this thread. I'd recommend looking back a bit & reading through those posts. They were discussed not long ago too. I'd say probably still on the first or second page.

It's pretty much splitting hairs once you get to the VTF-3MK4, LFM-1EX, FV12 & PB-12NSD. The Epiks are loud but don't play very deep, plus they don't have the best track record as far as their amps are concerned. I can't recommend Epik myself because of a lot of what I've read but research them yourself before making a judgement call.

I have sat & listened to almost every sub the HSU makes & was thoroughly impressed with each in there catagory!! So I can easily recommend HSU. But like I mentioned, the Rythmik SVS & Outlaw are right there. If you can still get the LFM-1EX on sale that's a good buy!

Thanks for the info on the Epik subs. I've been told similar things and these problems seem to be caused by obvious reasons. I understand it's design now and it isn't for me. In an exaggerated sense, I'd say it goes for what I call an imitation of good sound.

As far as the rest are concerned, between them, I decided to go with the Rythmik FV12 because all around, I hear that they're slightly more flexible and flat in their response at the very least. They have a bit less power but, as suggested off the bat elsewhere and by multiple people throughout, I plan to get another one and I feel two of them would be the perfect balance.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

I'm not sure whether your $600 budget includes shipping costs or not.

Just in terms of getting a sub that is capable of enough output to handle your room size (which, as mentioned, must be considered the entire open space and not just the area that is designated as the "theater area"), I'd agree that you want to be considering the SVSound PB12-NSD, HSU VTF-3 MK4 and Outlaw LFM-1 EX most highly.

To be perfectly honest, in that room size, I'd personally want something closer to an SVSound PB12-Plus, but that sub - and other subs like it - are considerably well above your intended budget.

Once you factor in shipping, it's worth noting that the SVSound PB12-NSD and PC12-NSD cylinder version are not really that much more expensive than the HSU or Outlaw options. The PC12-NSD cylinder is an especially flexible sub in terms of placement options given its small footprint and ability to lay on its side as well if you want to tuck it behind a couch or along the edge of a wall. It's a tiny bit cheaper than the PB12-NSD box version as well.

I'm a bit partial to SVSound's current offerings as their "Sledge" amps really are a cut above. Also worth mentioning in a room size such as yours is that the SVSound subs are "unbreakable". The amps are very well protected by that DSP and its limiters so that the sub will never play louder than a safe and distortion-free level. You can literally crank the volume knob as high as it will go without worry. While the NSD sub might not be able to play quite as loud as some folks would want in a room this size, what it WILL do is play as loud as it possibly can without distorting heavily or "bottoming out" in any way. So it's a very safe choice in that respect.

That said, the HSU VTF-3 MK4 is the most adjustable sub in the bunch. It has a plethora of nice filters that can really help to tune the low end output of the sub to your situation.

Regardless, if you go with the SVSound PB or PC12-NSD, HSU VTF-3 MK4 or Outlaw LFM-1 EX, you will be getting a very good sub that should be able to cope with your room size quite nicely. Personally, I'd favor either the SVSound PC12-NSD cylinder for its handy shape that gives it greater placement flexibility, or the HSU VTF-3 MK4 for it's greater choice of low end filter options that allow you to better "tune" it to any room.

Hope that helps!

After looking at the shipping costs, I think I now understand the reason for your asking for clarification. Logically, it is of course including shipping costs. Money isn't selective

You look at things from a very well balanced perspective IMO, between the feel of the sound and the technical front. This strikes a chord with me because the experience you've had and what you got from it feels like what I would've gotten. That said, I in fact appreciate the high quality design of SVS subs but as for the one I'd need, as you mentioned yourself, it's realistically out of my price range in this current situation in this point in time. I did however enter a contest for the PC12 subwoofer and maybe I'll get lucky

I decided to go with the Rhythmik FV12 with the intention of getting a second one in the not too distant future. I feel like that'd be the best and balanced option for me.

In a smaller room, I will definitely consider SVS again in the future. I really appreciate the input! I was actually hoping for some backing for SVS

If either the HSU VTF-3 MK4 or a proper SVS more often had deals for $600- at points, I'd probably go for one or the other. Unfortunately not the case... But again, maybe for some other scenario in the future...

 

[timoteo]

For $500 the FV12 is a great sub. IMO its the sub that i consider to be the cheapest "good" sub. Anything below the $500 price has some major compromises. The FV12 is a good all around sub & duals can yield very good results that would be plenty for most people, minus the most demanding. If I had $500 I'd go DIY but if I wanted a commercial sub for $500 the FV12 would most likely be my choice.

Enjoy!!

 

[yveletnik]

For $500 the FV12 is a great sub. IMO its the sub that i consider to be the cheapest "good" sub. Anything below the $500 price has some major compromises. The FV12 is a good all around sub & duals can yield very good results that would be plenty for most people, minus the most demanding. If I had $500 I'd go DIY but if I wanted a commercial sub for $500 the FV12 would most likely be my choice.

Enjoy!!

What would be your choice for DIY with $500?

 

[fuzz092888]

The CSS DIY subwoofers were mentioned to me, they're less than $500 for the kit, then probably another $20-30 for the MDF.

Also

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1104368

 

[timoteo]

Yes the CSS kits are well respected for sure!

The Trio12-APR15-BASH300 kit is only $379 it's a really great designed 12" driver (XBL<2 motor) & a 15" passive radiator. It comes with printable templates to build the box to spec. Performs like a $700+ sub. So for a little over $700 you could run duals & get some pretty amazing bass. If you know someone with a paint booth they can look pro too!!

Or go to PartsExpress & there are tons of driver options from TC-Sounds, Peerless (a.k.a: SVS), Dayton, TangBand etc.

Peerless XLS & XXLS drivers are excellent!! SVS uses the XXLS in their NSD line.

 

[yveletnik]

Yes the CSS kits are well respected for sure!

The Trio12-APR15-BASH300 kit is only $379 it's a really great designed 12" driver (XBL<2 motor) & a 15" passive radiator. It comes with printable templates to build the box to spec. Performs like a $700+ sub. So for a little over $700 you could run duals & get some pretty amazing bass. If you know someone with a paint booth they can look pro too!!

Or go to PartsExpress & there are tons of driver options from TC-Sounds, Peerless (a.k.a: SVS), Dayton, TangBand etc.

Peerless XLS & XXLS drivers are excellent!! SVS uses the XXLS in their NSD line.

thanks for pointers,

I'm thinking about DS1200 kit from Rythmik for $600, is there anything better I can get for $600? I need a fast sub for music, HT is not very important.
Not 100% if servo makes huge difference. Maybe I can get better quality driver/amp for that price that will perform better?

 

[fuzz092888]

If you need a musical sub why not HSU? They're excellent subs and known to be musical. Rhythmic subs are terrific as well, and the servo controlled helps keep everything fast and accurate, it really just depends on how much time and effort you want to put into everything. If you're budget is maxed at $600, all the little pieces you need to bring a DIY to fruition (depending on how in depth you get with it) could start building up the cost. Just a thought. Nothing wrong with the rhythmic, should be a cool build and end up being a great sub.