Subwoofer decision

[superman180]

Hello,

I am looking at upgrading my Subwoofer; I currently have infinity 12"sub and it is around 9 years old.

I have looked at many Subs and the two that get my attention are.

HSU VTF-3 MK2 specs are as follows

Cost 900.00 plus shipping.

Frequency response (Maximum extension mode) ± 2 dB 18 Hz
Frequency response (Maximum output mode) ± 2 dB 22 Hz
Frequency response (Maximum extension mode) ± 1 dB 20 Hz
Frequency response (Maximum output mode) ± 1 dB 25 Hz
Woofer size 12 inches
Amplifier power rating 350 Watts
Crossover frequency range 30-90 Hz, bypassable
Crossover slope 24 dB per octave
Crossover type low pass only
Phase 0/180°
Dimensions 22"(h)/15" (w)/23" (d)
Shipping weight 80 lbs.

Finish Black
Power Requirements 435 Watts
Warranty 7 Years on the woofer, 2 years on Electronics

Axiom EP500 specs as follows

Cost 1,150.00 plus shipping

Amplifier Power 500 Watts
Crossover adjust 40 - 100 Hz
Phase Switch 0 & 180°
XLF Digital Signal
Processing Yes
DSP Controlled Yes
Line In and Out Yes
Balanced Line In and Out Yes
High Level In Yes
Boost Control (35 Hz) +3dB, +6dB
Dynamic Power Supply Yes
Anechoic Response
+/- 1.5dB 20-100 Hz
Anechoic Response
+/- 3dB 19-100 Hz
In-Room Response 15-100 Hz
Max SPL Anechoic 109 dB
Max In-Room SPL 120 dB
Dimens. (HxWxD)(in.) 19.5 x 15 x 19.5
Weight 70 lbs

I understand that my application a personal needs are a major factor. And at this time I don't really need a sub this size but I will be putting into a much larger Theater room in the future and I don't want to be forced to upgrade again. This will be used for 80% Theater and 20% 2 channel music.

Any advice would be great.

 

[dloweman]

I have a room that is about 16X24 and just recently picked up the HSU vtf2-mk2. It is a real amazing sub, musicality is great, its tight and accurate, and can also reach quite low for HT use. I would think the big brother would be a great choice.

 

[bpape]

Purely on reputation, the HSU would be the clear choice.

However, there are some things (and important ones to me at least) that are not spec'd in both units.

- What is the xover slope of the Axiom? 24db/octave is good (and almost mandatory IMO)
- What is the max output of the HSU? What frequency is the max output rated at on the Axiom? If it's at 80Hz, who cares if at that max, 20Hz is down 20db.

Personally, I'd go with the HSU and save your pennies for another matching HSU for the bigger room later on if you need it. Otherwise, if you want something significantly better, save your pennies now and live with what you have until you can pony for a couple grand or more for a beastie that will go deep and loud in either room. The other option is to go the DIY route. Great bang for the buck option.

 

[shokhead]

What about the SB12-Plus from svsubs? I'm not sure how it matches to those you listed but it might be worth looking at.

 

[jaxvon]

Well, the Axiom is about -2 at 19Hz. Anechoic. So, it can *GET DOWN*. Seeing how they're both from good respectable companies, I'd say maybe give both a try. I know Axiom offers a 30-day money-back guarantee. So does Hsu. If you can float the cost of two subs for awhile, I'd say audition them both in your home and see what you think.

 

[shokhead]

I wonder out of a two hour movie,how much will be 19Hz?

 

[Duffinator]

I've been considering the SVS, HSU, and Axiom mentioned in this thread as well. I will most likely get the SVS. Check this review out.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190398

 

[jaxvon]

A lot of movies now have effects that reach down to 15 or 16Hz, so it's quite possible to happen. Course, this isn't going to happen if you're watching something like "The Manchurian Candidate" (the original and GOOD version of course, not the new one). However, if you watch action movies, or any movie with big rumbly things (LOTR comes to mind), then you're going to appreciate that linear sub-20Hz response.

 

[shokhead]

Maybe,but imo i dont think in a good action flick of 2 hours,your going to get more then 30 seconds of under 20Hz. But of course,i could be full of it and there could me minutes of it thoughout the movie. I think its more in he 20-25Hz then below 20.

 

[superman180]

Well after writing the original post I looked up SVS and found what I think I'll go with, not to mention the wife like's it's appearances the best.

Any thoughts on this model

PB12-Plus subwoofer

dB-12 "Plus" woofer by TC-Sounds made exclusively for SVS
500 watt BASH (R) amp with built-in parametric equalizer
Flush-mount amp configuration (220v. version available)
Computer Assisted Design (CAD) enclosure
Down-firing configuration with distinctive SVS integrated base-plate
Compliant floor mounts, low center of gravity
Three 3" high-flow flared porting (in and out), two port blocks included.
CNC'd and assembled in America, each hand tested by SVS R/D Labs
Extra heavy-duty detachable 8 foot power cord
Clear hard-wood veneer with soft rounded corners
Selectable 20Hz, 16Hz or 12Hz extension (20Hz native)
Variable subsonic filter with 12Hz, 16Hz or 20Hz settings
Size: Approx. 25”deep x 18"wide x 25"high. Weight: 110 pounds

 

[bpape]

There are several subs that will do -2db @18-19Hz @ 85db. Very few of them will do it at 105-110db - severe compression sets in at higher levels.

 

[jaxvon]

Ah, yes indeed it is at 85dB. Good point. Here's a link to the measurements.

Looks like you'll end up with the SVS. The WAF is quite powerful

 

[hifi007]

IMO the VTF-3 MK2 sounds much better than the SVS sub. It is also easier to blend in with your mains speaker even if your running electrostatics or ribbons. Most good subwoofers can in an averaged sized room produce 109dB+ from 22Hz upwards. The question really gets down to how long can your hearing last at above those consistant levels if your system is balanced to match your sub. Perhaps one or two high peaks at those levels, but I cant see enjoyment at sustained listening in a house sized room. Perhaps its just me, but I am just not a typical loud car audio type listener.

 

[Duffinator]

IMO the VTF-3 MK2 sounds much better than the SVS sub. It is also easier to blend in with your mains speaker even if your running electrostatics or ribbons. Most good subwoofers can in an averaged sized room produce 109dB+ from 22Hz upwards. The question really gets down to how long can your hearing last at above those consistant levels if your system is balanced to match your sub. Perhaps one or two high peaks at those levels, but I cant see enjoyment at sustained listening in a house sized room. Perhaps its just me, but I am just not a typical loud car audio type listener.

Which SVS sub did you listen too? Did you do a side by side comparison? Please describe "much better".

 

[hifi007]

The subs we originally had in a 23x17x10 room where the PB12-Plus, VTF-3 MK2, and a SVS 20-39PC-Plus cylinder. The speakers where my S4 Signature Paradigms. The Hsu was just smoother and disappeared easier, mainly because its tonality was more nuetral. The PC-Plus has a very similar sonic tone to the PB-12Plus so I take it that most Svs subs have a similar sound? The Svs subs could play slightly louder but all subs where more than capable of playing louder [without any distress] than what our ears could handle. Most of my friends and I summed it up , the SVS subwoofers where good for HT, but the Hsu Research could do both music and HT equally well. The Hsu without revealing its position could get higher up the frequency range where the SVS subs became more vocal and their location became more obvious. Its was like the Hsu was smooth and balanced right the way through its operating range. Very noticable with music not so much with HT material which is not so critical to listen and judge.

 

[shokhead]

Sounds like setup was wrong or something else if you could tell where the bass was coming from. Thats setup. Why would you want a sub higher up the freq range?

 

[shokhead]

Ah, yes indeed it is at 85dB. Good point. Here's a link to the measurements.

Looks like you'll end up with the SVS. The WAF is quite powerful

85db isnt loud enough. I would rather have 105db@25Hz then 85db@20Hz.

 

[hifi007]

Sounds like setup was wrong or something else if you could tell where the bass was coming from. Thats setup. Why would you want a sub higher up the freq range?

No it was fine, you would probably never pick it on their own, it was only just in 'direct comparision', the Hsu was just better balanced and its tonality in the higher than 40Hz stuff was consistant right down to it 18Hz frequency depth. The Svs pair where great below about 40Hz but in the 40Hz and above they change character and became fat. No amount of positional changes helped and it was not a room anomoly. We alliviated it a lot by setting the crossover at 50Hz and loading up the Paradigms more which was not ideal. With the Svs pair the ideal would have been the big floorstanding S8s and crossover set at 40Hz. With the Hsu we could take it out to 90-100Hz without picking up the blend between the sub/speakers, you may find it hard to pick up on the Svs but if you use some well recorded music and directly compare the differences are pretty easy to hear. You can always crossover at a extra low freq, but that loads up your mains and amplifier much more and it can congest your midrange vocals and the clarity of your mains. I think Hsu must have worked on this as it shows in comparision.

Thats more or less why we all came away thinking the Svs is targeted to the HT side of things. The other obvious ssue is the Svs pair are physically much larger so you may want to look closely at your room limitations because getting the right positioning relative to your listening spot is vital.