Sub limit?

[photodyer]

This is pretty basic I imagine, but I can't find reference to it through any search terms I've put through the forum engine . . .

How many powered subs/devices (including buttkickers) can be hooked up through a single sub pre-out? I'm assuming the number is >1 given that many folks run a pair of subs, but is there a ceiling to the number of branches you can connect? If so, how does one go about adding extra devices?

TIA for the clarification!

 

[krzywica]

You would simply split your lfe out with a y cable. Not really a limit but keep in mind every time you split a line you lose some strength from that source.

 

[photodyer]

You would simply split your lfe out with a y cable. Not really a limit but keep in mind every time you split a line you lose some strength from that source.

That's what I thought, but is there a "wall"; that is, a practical limit either in terms of # of splits, total length of cable, or any other factor? I ask because I want to run a pair of subs for my actual audio, then either small sub(s) or buttkickers for tactile effect at the seating area. I want the tactiles, but not at the cost of sound quality. At what point are you spreading the signal too thin?

 

[jaxvon]

I would just use one splitter. Many amps have parallel outputs that allow you to daisy chain them together. I don't know what kind of subs you plan on using, but if you get passive ones, you can use something like the Samson S1000. I believe the Buttkicker amp also has this feature.

 

[photodyer]

I would just use one splitter.

So, it's not reasonable to run two powered "audio" subs and a tactile unit off of the same sub pre-out? Then how can you run such a setup? I've seen many posts mentioning both dual powered subs and buttkickers--how so?

 

[Tubes4Life]

I wouldnt worry about it. hook 'em up and see if it works. I know some people that have daisy chained 4 subwoofers without a problem.

 

[jaxvon]

I guess you COULD split it three times, but I'd rather not do it. Or, perhaps the user split the output, ran one to the first sub, one to the buttkicker amp, then daisy chained the buttkicker amp to the second sub. Without looking at specific equipment, it's hard to tell what someone did.

Upon looking, the official buttkicker company does not sell an amp with an output that I'm talking about. However, a good quality pro amp has this and could be used.

Part of the reason I'm recommending the use of passive subwoofers is for the fact that it will save your sub amps the heat and vibration of being mounted in the sub enclosure.

 

[photodyer]

*Lights go on, finally . . . thread author smacks self repeatedly in the forehead*

I just ran onto the piece of the puzzle that was missing for me--active subs with outs that would allow for daisy-chaining without further splitting the original signal cable. My current sub is a ten-year-old Klipsch with only a line-level input and no outs; after looking at some modern subs and seeing signal outputs, I'm finally seeing the alternate to multiple splits upstream.

My reason for asking is that I'm considering a relatively cheap alternative to buttkickers--small front-firing subs butted into seating rows. Run at a relatively lower volume compared to the main subs, they should not interfere with the main subs' music duties. Likewise, signal degradation at their level in the chain shouldn't matter much since they aren't there to be "heard".

Of course, I wish I had thought of this before they finished hanging insulation in the basement . . . oh well; at least I have a few days before sheetrock goes up!

 

[jaxvon]

I would check out part numbers 299-027 and 299-028 at Parts Express. They're small tactile transducers that you can mount to the bottom of each seat, or rows of seats. Pretty cheap too. The only caveat is that you need to get an amplifier for each one (or a multi-channel distrubuted audio amp, or something similar).

http://www.parts0express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-027
http://www.parts0express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-028

Take the 0 out of the hyperlink to get to the page. There is a block on this forums for the PE URL.

 

[tedmjr2]

Photodyer,

My reservations with small tactile transducers are that they may be too subtle and not as accurate and quick responding. BTW, you definitely willl feel the Buttkickers working below 20 Hz whereas the others fail to respond.

It won't hurt to try two y-cables to see if your original plan works well. I know there are many variables to consider, but you'll likely not have any noticeable degradation of signal.

The idea of using extra small subs at a lower volume will just "muddy" your overall bass and probably won't even perform the tactile effect that you're looking for.

 

[markw]

accurate and quick don't seem to be issues for tactile transducers.

Instead of those overused adjectives, I thinks for these "visceral" would be more in line. Remember, you don't "hear" them. They excite whatever furniture they are attached to which, in turn, excites a certain part of your body.

When was the last time you took your butt for a hearing test?

 

[tedmjr2]

Accurate & Quick are Essential for Tactile Transducers - just like subwoofers.

The terms accurate & quick was meant for the transducer's performance to be in sync with the LFE. Your butt doesn't hear but it can sense the off-timing of a cheap transducer and rapid bass notes.

Many transducers cannot react and catch up with fast-note bass. This is why concert musicians (drummers & bassists) use Buttkickers for their accurate response to assist them to also feel and perform in sync with the music while wearing headphones or ear plugs.

In movies for example, I like to feel the transducer in sync to a rapid fire high-powered cannon. Exciting the furniture/floor just for the sake of feeling vibrations won't do it for me.

I understand, some people may not be particular with accurate synchonization of LFE and tactile transducers. To me, it's like not being concerned with the synchronization of dialog in the old Kung-Fu movies.

 

[photodyer]

Thanks for the input guys . . . I'll look into the tactile transducer options as well. Regrettably, either way I'll be digging through R30 pink fiberfluff tomorrow to get another cable run to the back of the room . . .