Sub help

[Mpsafranski]

I’ve got 2 svs pb2000 and running Elac b6.2 frontsc.5 center and the Elac IW as surrounds. Had all hooked up to a Sony strdn1080 but upgraded to a Marantz sr7011. I do believe I hear a difference in performance. However something odd happened.

On the Sony room correction had subs at +2 db. I’d typically have the gain on my subs at 50%.

Audessey had me turn the gain down to about 25-30% and is running them at +2. I’m getting what seems to be just as much volume which is odd, but great. However since hooking the marantz up, bass sometimes sounds boomy. Which was never an issue before with the Sony. FI listening to Dark Side on SACD today, Breathe in the Air had some noticeable boom. Subs in same location.

Because the subs are powered I guess I don’t understand how changing the receiver could alter their output. Thoughts?

 

[shadyJ]

Audyssey can make things worse if you don't run it correctly (it can also make things worse if you do run it correctly). Make sure you are following directions on running Audyssey precisely. There is also no assurance that Audyssey made things better unless you verify it. You need to have a way to measure the room response. It sounds to me like Audyssey may have inadvertently created a peak in the response. There is no harm in leaving Audyssey off if it is doing something to the sound that you aren't liking.

 

[ryanosaur]

I don't recall if the Audyssey App works on the 7011... if it does, it can be nice to use. I do feel I got my $20 out of it. What's nice is it does you you a raw graph of what Aud. sees for each channel. It also gives you the ability to set an upper frequency limit on its functionality... I have mine set at what appears to be the Schroeder Frequency of my room; where the room itself stops acting as a resonator for the LFs.
Anyway, I've used Audyssey to just set my distance and levels and also am experimenting with it for its actual purpose. Don't be afraid to experiment with it!
Oh, and if you have the option, try turning Dynamic EQ off. Also, if you have the option, try Flat instead of Reference.

 

[lovinthehd]

Audyssey would affect the sub's eq more than the Sony's DCAC I'd think. If you used either, you don't say. Audyssey IME does well with subs, tho. How did you choose sub placement to begin with?

ps Different gain settings on sub would likely have to do with the output levels of the avrs involved...

 

[Mpsafranski]

I don't recall if the Audyssey App works on the 7011... if it does, it can be nice to use. I do feel I got my $20 out of it. What's nice is it does you you a raw graph of what Aud. sees for each channel. It

Thanks! The app is available on the 7011 for sure. I haven’t bought it because I don’t really know how to read those graphs, really new to this stuff and the technical stuff—tho I’m interested in learning—is more than a little above my head. Also I dont have any equipment. Does the app function just off your phone and the calibration mic?

 

[Mpsafranski]

Audyssey would affect the sub's eq more than the Sony's DCAC I'd think. If you used either, you don't say. Audyssey IME does well with subs, tho. How did you choose sub placement to begin with?

ps Different gain settings on sub would likely have to do with the output levels of the avrs involved...

Sub placement based on necessity, both on front wall to the inside of mains, each at a quarter width. It’d be war with my wife if I wanted to move them, and thankfully (with the Sony) bass sounded pretty even to my ear throughout the room.

And yes I used the DCAC on the Sony and Audyssey on the Marantz using the included calibration mic and stand. All the other speakers sound better than they ever have, just need the bass issue cleared up.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sub placement based on necessity, both on front wall to the inside of mains, each at a quarter width. It’d be war with my wife if I wanted to move them, and thankfully (with the Sony) bass sounded pretty even to my ear throughout the room.

And yes I used the DCAC on the Sony and Audyssey on the Marantz using the included calibration mic and stand. All the other speakers sound better than they ever have, just need the bass issue cleared up.

You used all the mic positions when running Audyssey? In what pattern? Mic positioned how? Crossover is set at? Subs set to LFE or LFE+Main?

 

[Mpsafranski]

You used all the mic positions when running Audyssey? In what pattern? Mic positioned how? Crossover is set at? Subs set to LFE or LFE+Main?

Used the setup mic in every position, as per the on screen instructions. Main listening seat, the seat to the right, seat to the left and just in front of all seats (in whatever order the instructions showed). Subs set to LFE + main, 150hz for LFE and all speaker crossovers set to 80hz. Phase on subs set to 0

 

[Mpsafranski]

Used the setup mic in every position, as per the on screen instructions. Main listening seat, the seat to the right, seat to the left and just in front of all seats (in whatever order the instructions showed). Subs set to LFE + main, 150hz for LFE and all speaker crossovers set to 80hz. Phase on subs set to 0

Sorry, mic at exactly ear level at all positions.

 

[lovinthehd]

Why LFE+Main? Could be your muddy issue due some duplication of frequencies, change to just LFE. Have you experimented with different phase settings on the subs?

 

[ryanosaur]

For purposes of education, these have been great:
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/understanding-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-measurements-2
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/measurements-3

We all had to start from the beginning at some point.

Please. Come join us.

 

[Mpsafranski]

Thanks guys. Those links are great, will be diving in. Lovinthehd, I tried switching to LFE only per your suggestion, turned off dynamic eq, still getting poor sounding bass. We were watching Stranger Things and at times the whole room was humming/buzzing obnoxiously. Have not played with the phase settings yet, will do more experimenting tomorrow and may rerun audyssey just to rule out error. It doesn’t make sense that bass sounded great with same sub placement on the $400 Sony and awful on the $1000 marantz. Has to be something I’m not doing. Maybe phase settings?

 

[Leemix]

Did you try to turn audyssey off to hear how bass is without anything but room/placement affecting it?
Also is it deep bass or higher up, possibly around or above the crossover?

Edits. Do you have the premium netflix with better bitrate sound or the normal subscription?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Ed Mullen]

Try re-running set-up again. Make sure the PB-2000s phase is set to 0 and the low pass is set to LFE (full clockwise). Also, are both subs on the same wall?

Carefully level match each subwoofer to exactly 75 dB per the Audyssey set-up. If you do this, the overall subwoofer channel level should come back in the negative range for both subs.

Also, leave the mic at head level only at the primary listening position. Run it 3X without moving the mic and then move-on and save the results. I suspect one of your mic locations has a bad null and Audyssey is attempting to compensate for same.

After set-up runs, make sure all speakers are set to Small, then set all crossovers to 80 Hz (unless Audyssey set them higher), set the subwoofer mode to LFE and set the LPF/LFE to 120 Hz.

Report back with the post-Audyssey subwoofer channel level set for both subs.

 

[Mpsafranski]

Hi Ed. Thanks. Just to be clear, what you’d like me to do is set the mic on the primary seat at ear level, and run that 3 times, and then stop the calibration there?

And yes both PB-2000 have always been set to LFE and phase 0. And yeah they are both on the front wall.

 

[Ed Mullen]

That is exactly correct. It may result in better SQ and level matching afterwards if there was a large null at one or more of your measurement locations.

There could also be a large null at the MLP measurement location, which you should determine using the Audyssey app and/or independent measurements before finalizing that combination of subwoofer location and listening position.

But first let's start with the above steps and see if that helps.

 

[Mpsafranski]

Okay so I reran Audyssey with just the one location 3 times. Things sound MUCH better. There is almost none of the annoying humming.

So, dumb question. When I go into manual settings to set xovers at 80hz, and tweak the speaker levels, the room correction stays on?

I also bought the app and am going to play around with it.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

 

[Mpsafranski]

I also was reading somewhere that sometimes the receivers ability to eq both subs can cause more problems than it solves and that it may help to get a splitter and tell the receiver there is only one sub. Any truth to this?

 

[Ed Mullen]

Okay so I reran Audyssey with just the one location 3 times. Things sound MUCH better. There is almost none of the annoying humming.

So, dumb question. When I go into manual settings to set xovers at 80hz, and tweak the speaker levels, the room correction stays on?

I also bought the app and am going to play around with it.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Yes, MultEQ stays enabled if you change the crossover. You can go up (higher) in crossover but not down (deeper).

Glad it's sounding better!

 

[Ed Mullen]

I also was reading somewhere that sometimes the receivers ability to eq both subs can cause more problems than it solves and that it may help to get a splitter and tell the receiver there is only one sub. Any truth to this?

If you have the subs in opposite corners, it's possible that setting the actual distance for each will result in a cancellation null.

If you have REW, you can try both subs on the same sub-out and then phase them for the optimal combined FR and then run Audyssey after that. I only recommend this alternative if you have REW.