Sub choice - Help!

[ARES24]

I am looking into a new sub, to compliment my new ER18's. (my current sub doesn't seem to help out the towers)

Budgeting at $800.

I have been looking at the Data-Bass and have learned alot about my options.

Here's the sticky point, I am in Canada and that severely reduces options(especially from the budget stand point) The DIY options seem difficult for me to aquire

I really think that the construction portion of a build is the easy part but getting the components is hard. I would like something that extends into the 16Hz range, has enough output for 2400 cubic feet and is sized like an end table, 18Wx24Dx24H.(totally random numbers!)

Right now I am getting frustrated and am thinking about the PB12-NSD available for $750 (not terrible!)

What do you guys think?

 

[jinjuku]

I am looking into a new sub, to compliment my new ER18's. (my current sub doesn't seem to help out the towers)

Budgeting at $800.

I have been looking at the Data-Bass and have learned alot about my options.

Here's the sticky point, I am in Canada and that severely reduces options(especially from the budget stand point) The DIY options seem difficult for me to aquire

I really think that the construction portion of a build is the easy part but getting the components is hard. I would like something that extends into the 16Hz range, has enough output for 2400 cubic feet and is sized like an end table, 18Wx24Dx24H.(totally random numbers!)

Right now I am getting frustrated and am thinking about the PB12-NSD available for $750 (not terrible!)

What do you guys think?

Purchase drivers / kits from a few well respected Canadian outfits since you have $800.

CSS and IXL come to mind. You could do two CSS Passive Radiator kits for your budget.

 

[brianedm]

I am looking into a new sub, to compliment my new ER18's. (my current sub doesn't seem to help out the towers)

Budgeting at $800.

I have been looking at the Data-Bass and have learned alot about my options.

Here's the sticky point, I am in Canada and that severely reduces options(especially from the budget stand point) The DIY options seem difficult for me to aquire

I really think that the construction portion of a build is the easy part but getting the components is hard. I would like something that extends into the 16Hz range, has enough output for 2400 cubic feet and is sized like an end table, 18Wx24Dx24H.(totally random numbers!)

Right now I am getting frustrated and am thinking about the PB12-NSD available for $750 (not terrible!)

What do you guys think?

Where abouts do you live in Canada? I know it's a long shot but if you live near by you could come by for a pb12-nsd demo I think it's an excellent sub, but if you know what you're doing (and have the time) you can probably beat it DIY.

 

[ARES24]

Brampton Ontario

 

[Swerd]

I am looking into a new sub, to compliment my new ER18's. (my current sub doesn't seem to help out the towers). Budgeting at $800.

Here's the sticky point, I am in Canada and that severely reduces options(especially from the budget stand point) The DIY options seem difficult for me to aquire

I really think that the construction portion of a build is the easy part but getting the components is hard. I would like something that extends into the 16Hz range, has enough output for 2400 cubic feet and is sized like an end table, 18Wx24Dx24H. (totally random numbers!)

I'm far from an expert on subwoofers, but here is what reliable info I do know: There are many sub drivers available for $500-600 US that can go down to about 25 Hz. If you want to go down to 20 Hz you're going to pay a lot more, perhaps double, for that. Lower than 20 Hz will cost even more, and it may be unrealistic at your budget. I'm of the opinion that it isn't worth it, but you will hear many other opinions on that.

Of course, I'm really more interested in how your ER18 MTMs sound . They are said to be capable of bass as low as 32-34 Hz. Is that what you hear from them?

 

[brianedm]

Brampton Ontario

According to google sonicboomaudio is only 42 min from you in Richmond hill. You could always give them a call and go for a listen there

 

[ARES24]

I'm far from an expert on subwoofers, but here is what reliable info I do know: There are many sub drivers available for $500-600 US that can go down to about 25 Hz. If you want to go down to 20 Hz you're going to pay a lot more, perhaps double, for that. Lower than 20 Hz will cost even more, and it may be unrealistic at your budget. I'm of the opinion that it isn't worth it, but you will hear many other opinions on that.

Of course, I'm really more interested in how your ER18 MTMs sound . They are said to be capable of bass as low as 32-34 Hz. Is that what you hear from them?

The towers sound fantastic. I can't say what frequencies they get down to but I can tell you that the ER18s make my sub seem rather unimportant (it's an Energy 8.2 I believe)

 

[ARES24]

According to google sonicboomaudio is only 42 min from you in Richmond hill. You could always give them a call and go for a listen there

If I am still in the purchase mood I will. For now I will continue research. In all likely hood I will end up building something because that is where my heart lies

 

[ARES24]

Alot of DIY options use rack mount amps.

1. Why is that?

2. Where would they be located? I don't plan on having my sub anywhere near my av equipment, does that mean that I will have to run heavy speaker wire to it?


The Rythmic DS1510 4ohm vented 4-5 cu ft tuned to 20hz,, with H600PEQ3 servo amplifier looks rather sexy at this point (though I will likely have to up my budget) I am assuming the output specs would be similar to the FV15HP that was measured on Data-Bass.

 

[templemaners]

Alot of DIY options use rack mount amps.

1. Why is that?

Because they offer a lot more power than most plate amps can (SpeakerPower - Home being a notable exception), both in absolute and watts/$ terms. IMO, plate amps, unless you are going high end like SpeakerPower, are a budgetary compromise compared to rack mount/pro amps.

One of our more... outspoken members ... had a pretty good write up when it comes to subwoofer amplification.:

Serious Audio

2. Where would they be located? I don't plan on having my sub anywhere near my av equipment, does that mean that I will have to run heavy speaker wire to it?

The amp could be located wherever you want. You will still need to run speaker wire, XLR, Speakon, etc. (whatever you use to connect with) from the sub to the amp, as well as a connection from your receiver to the amp. The upside is, you won't need to have a wall outlet close by like you would with a plate amp. And with a plate amp, you'd still be running a subwoofer cable from your receiver to the sub.

The Rythmic DS1510 4ohm vented 4-5 cu ft tuned to 20hz,, with H600PEQ3 servo amplifier looks rather sexy at this point (though I will likely have to up my budget) I am assuming the output specs would be similar to the FV15HP that was measured on Data-Bass.

If you do go the servo route w/Rythmic, you won't be able to use a rack/pro audio amp.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Alot of DIY options use rack mount amps.

1. Why is that?

2. Where would they be located? I don't plan on having my sub anywhere near my av equipment, does that mean that I will have to run heavy speaker wire to it?


The Rythmic DS1510 4ohm vented 4-5 cu ft tuned to 20hz,, with H600PEQ3 servo amplifier looks rather sexy at this point (though I will likely have to up my budget) I am assuming the output specs would be similar to the FV15HP that was measured on Data-Bass.

Funny that I should come across this thread now. I was just checking in at Home Theatre Shack about the new CSS SDX12 drivers. They're supposed to become available next week. These should be very capable 12 inchers. Pricing will be $520 (including shipping) for a pair. They didn't say what a single would cost, but you could guesstimate that.

To answer your questions:

1) Because rack-mount pro amps give a lot of bang for the buck.

2) You can place the amp almost anywhere. Depending on how far the sub is from the amp, 12 AWG wire should be plenty heavy. Wherever you place the sub, you'll have to run a line-level cable from the sub-out of your receiver to the sub amp. Then, speaker wire to the sub itself. I have a pair of subs mounted in my attic, firing into my living room, while the amp is in the basement. See what I mean about placing the amp almost anywhere?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Because they offer a lot more power than most plate amps...

We must have been typing our responses almost simultaneously. Sorry for bascially repeating what you said.

 

[ARES24]

The more I read the more UN-comfortable I get....

When getting drivers; Some have impedance as simple 4ohm (yay!) but others say 2+2 I have also looked at ones that have a 3ohm impedance.([ SoundSplinter Subwoofers - RL-s 12" Subwoofer Information ]) Considering amps give W @ 8/4Ohms, will they run with a higher watt rating or damage something?

Concerning rack amps; Considering my goal is to obtain frequencies down to 16-17Hz I have to get an amp that will output those frequencies? i.e. not this one Parts Express I realize I am splitting hairs with only being off by 1 or 2 hz I am just trying to understand a point, this confuses me (Subsonic filter: -3 dB @ 18 Hz, Q=0.8). Other amps do not have a frequency operating range, therefore I assume I will have to cut out the lower frequencies to keep from damaging the driver. (some do have hpf and lpf built in)

I am sure I will have more questions

 

[annunaki]

When it comes to impedance, 2+2 is equal to single 4 or single 1 ohm depending upon how you wire the coils, series or parallel respectively. A 4+4 would be equal to a single 8 ohm with the coils in series or a single 2 ohm with coils in parallel.

There are a lot of woofer options out there, for your budget, is the $800 inclusive of woofer(s), amp & materials or just woofers & amp?

 

[ARES24]

Woofers and amp. Even that I will likely push up a bit more, especially if I find something that I waaaant

 

[annunaki]

There are a lot of different options out there as you are aware. I would assume you are considering a vented option or a passive radiator design in order to achieve the extreme LF response you are after. Sealed options can get that low but probably not at the output levels you are after. That being the case I am thinking your best option will likely be high performance woofer along with passive radiators from CSS since they are in Canada.

Do you have size limitations you are considering here? This will be paramount in trying to determine an appropriate option for you. The dimensions you arbitrarily provided offer about 4.8ft^3 internal gross before displacement. For an endtable, I would assume max dimensions would probably be something like 20" Wide, 28" Deep, 26" high. That would net you about 6.9ft^3 gross putting essentially any option on the table I can think of off the top of my head. I just want to know what is acceptable and what isn't so I can work from something here.

 

[ARES24]

The numbers that you have are good. I could even go a bit deeper, but that would have to be the top height of the unit.

I don't think that I need to worry about shipping concerns, my mother goes to the US fairly often and I have a client that is there every other week. I am sure I could avoid paying hundreds in shipping. (rather frustrating that there is free shipping to the entire continental us but 2 hours past the border costs $146) So I don't want to restrict myself to Canadian options.

I have looked at Creative Sound Solutions - Loudspeakers, Parts and DIY Speaker Kits but haven't been particularly impressed with the options. Then again, if I have learned anything, it's that I actually HAVEN'T.