Streaming quality issues

Michael maniaci

Michael maniaci

Audiophyte
Hello to the Audioholics community! I am brand new to this forum so my apologies if this post is not in the correct forum thread. Any insights pointing to a possible culprit, or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated!
I am hoping that I can find a solution to the problem I seem to have with streaming music files. The situation is a consistent degradation in sound quality that I can best describe as a graininess, or “brown noise,” if you will, occurring in the lower mid-range. This occurs with lossy mp3, FLAC, and “HiFI” music from Spotify, and even MQA files from Tidal. Furthermore, this degradation seems to get worse as the streamed content goes further into the file (e.g. as time increases in the streamed file). As well, as the musical composition/complexity gets heavier the problem is exacerbated (network buffering?). There is no noise in the system I can detect and quiet passages, vocals, individual instruments, are all faithfully reproduced. I have taken downloaded streamed mp3 files and converted them to legally licensed FLAC files and the degradation is unchanged. I have found no changes to this problem by diagnosing my system as follows, changing one variable at a time:
Change Streaming source: Marantz SR 5012 to Bluesound Node 2i – NC; minimized network traffic by shutting down all other sources pulling on my network – NC; Swap-out speakers - NC; Swap-out output source: Marantz AVR to Integrated Amp - NC; Swap-out interlink RCA cables - NC; Replace Speaker cables - NC; Swap-out media interface: Android Tablet to Laptop – NC; Change interface App; Tidal App vs Spotify App vs BlueOS App – NC.
Playing mp3 files from a thumb drive does not exhibit the same degradation issues – they just sound like lossy mp3 files which is a completely different quality than the one I am describing. CD music comes across fine and my designated stereo listening speakers are of such quality that I can pick up poorly recorded CD’s that I have never heard from previous speakers using the same equipment.
This is making me nuts! At this point I am leaning toward a bandwidth and/or download speed problem with my current ISP plan. This would explain the unchanged problem with downloaded and saved streamed content converted to uncompressed FLAC files. I have not been able to find what would be considered the minimum download speed required to play back streaming content without issues.
My equipment: Marantz AVR SR-5012, NAD C 320BEE, Yamaha AX 592 integrated amp, Yamaha BD-S681 Blu-ray player, BlueSound Node 2i, Paradigm Studio 40 v3 speakers, Klipsch 650 speakers, Polk Audio RM 7500 speakers (surround), DIY 3-way tower speakers (my reference speakers, as it turns out). Network Provider: AT&T DSL (I know, but it’s about the only game in town here ☹), 2.4 & 5 GHz bands, ~200-700 Mbps (500 ave.) on the 5 GHz. Using LAN instead of WiFi.
My apologies for the length of this inquiry. I figure if I lay it all out there from the onset it might make things easier to diagnose without a lot of back and forth questions. Or not HaHa!
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm sorry, This paragraph is both crucial and a bit confusing to me (IT engineer with 20 years experience, including designing networks)
",2.4 & 5 GHz bands, ~200-700 Mbps (500 ave.) on the 5 GHz. Using LAN instead of WiFi. "
If you always use WIRED networking and not WIRELESS or WIFI for streaming then I don't need to know your Wifi Setup. LAN doesn't specify if you're using wired or wireless networking - it could be both,

You also describe that playback from usb drive is fine (except obvious compression artifacts of mp3 files - have you tried FLAC files playback from USB?)
Spotify and Tidal both outside streaming services - these heavily rely on the quality (not just speed) of your internet. You should have it tested here: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest
Use share results to post your results here like this [copy BBcode]
 
Michael maniaci

Michael maniaci

Audiophyte
Understood Overlord. I was using wifi for the AV receiver and switched to LAN on the Bluesound. So the issue was in both. And yes, the converted mp3 to FLAC files were played from the USB drive. speed test results attached. Thank you for your response!
speedtest-02_09112019.PNG
speedtest-02_09112019.PNG
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I have taken downloaded streamed mp3 files and converted them to legally licensed FLAC files and the degradation is unchanged.
The rest of what you typed is a bit tl/dr and confusing to read, but this part kind of jumped out at me. You can convert an mp3 to flac, but it's still going to sound like the mp3 file you started with. You can't upconvert or add back in what was taken out during the conversion to mp3.
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic General
~200-700 Mbps (500 ave.) on the 5 GHz. Using LAN instead of WiFi.
If I am understanding this right, you are getting an average of 500mbps of download speed with a DSL connection?? If so, in most cases that's way more than enough.

Otherwise I would agree with Pogre - converting MP3 to flac is not going to change a thing soundwise. MP3 is lossey compression, flac and wav are lossless CD quality that can't be extracted for MP3. Maybe there is somewhere in you system where you could simplify things? For instance - I have a Yamaha receiver (3060) hardwired directly to my netgear router and my streamed wav and flac files sound just as good as CD.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
That seems like very high speed dsl to me. All I get at best (on dsl) is 14Mbps, usually less. Also curious why putting mp3 into FLAC format (how much more space do you need to save?).
 
Michael maniaci

Michael maniaci

Audiophyte
Hey guys thanks for responding!
Yeah, I think I put too much into that first post with out enough paragraph spacing - it looked fine when I pasted it from my Word file but now it just looks like some kind of run on sentence. Sorry about that but at least you were able to slog thru and get what seems to be the thrust of the issue - problems coming from the streaming quality as Overlord has intimated.
I converted the mp3 to FLAC to see if the uncompressed file would play differently but see Pogre's point in that whatever was streamed as mp3 already had the artifacts from streaming in it and nothing you can do about that. I was trying everything i could think of haha!
And yes, the connection speed lost a decimal: should have read 20.0 - 70.0 Mb/s, and Overlords suggestion to do a connection test confirms that; as the images of the test results show this morning averaging 30Mb/s. So sorry for the misinformation.
I have the same problem with a wired connection to my router as I do running the streamer wireless. So, if an average download speed of 30 Mb/s should be good enough for at least CD quality streaming, then perhaps the quality of the internet connection is bad - dropping too many packets or something. I'll do a check on that and post the results.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Hey guys thanks for responding!
Yeah, I think I put too much into that first post with out enough paragraph spacing - it looked fine when I pasted it from my Word file but now it just looks like some kind of run on sentence. Sorry about that but at least you were able to slog thru and get what seems to be the thrust of the issue - problems coming from the streaming quality as Overlord has intimated.
I converted the mp3 to FLAC to see if the uncompressed file would play differently but see Pogre's point in that whatever was streamed as mp3 already had the artifacts from streaming in it and nothing you can do about that. I was trying everything i could think of haha!
And yes, the connection speed lost a decimal: should have read 20.0 - 70.0 Mb/s, and Overlords suggestion to do a connection test confirms that; as the images of the test results show this morning averaging 30Mb/s. So sorry for the misinformation.
I have the same problem with a wired connection to my router as I do running the streamer wireless. So, if an average download speed of 30 Mb/s should be good enough for at least CD quality streaming, then perhaps the quality of the internet connection is bad - dropping too many packets or something. I'll do a check on that and post the results.
30Mbps is more than enough for streaming music....if your ISP doesn't strangle it.
 
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