Strange HDMI issue with receiver [Solved]

[rsharp]

I have a 7-year old Pioneer Elite SC-91 receiver. Over the past couple of weeks, I've made the following modifications:

1. Updated our Apple TV HD unit to the latest 4K version.
2. Updated HDMI cables (certified 2.1 spec). Brand of Zeskit (Amazon). I didn't have any literature on the older cables, so wanted to be sure everything was 2.1 compliant going forward.
3. Updated connected speakers with new wire. Made my own using 10 AWG (Voltive brand on Amazon) along with banana terminals.

Everything was well until yesterday morning. Our Apple TV 4K (connected to HDMI input 6 on the receiver) would rapidly change between snow (though some type of pattern exists in it), either correct output, or blue-tinted, and then no output at all. This repeats over and over:

Here's the strange thing:

• Thought it may be the new HDMI cable, so replaced with old. Same issue.
• Connected the Apple TV 4K to the nearby HDMI 5 input. Same issue.
• Connected older Apple TV HD to HDMI 6. Same issue.
• Connected both the Apple TV HD and Apple TV 4K to HDMI input 2. Works a-ok.
• Connected Nintendo Wii Switch to HDMI 6. Works a-ok

So somehow, Apple TV (both units) when connected to either HDMI 5 or 6 inputs will exhibit this problem. Has anyone seen such a thing? I know both Apple TVs were outputting 1080p 60 SDR signals. I cannot find the signal that the Wii Switch is putting out, but it should at least be 1080p 30 and being a gaming console, I would think it's actually 1080p 60 as well.

Is this some kind of levels issue with the HDMI signal? Perhaps Apple TV is putting out a weaker signal? And the receiver, being damaged now is struggling with those signals?

I'm now looking at replacing the receiver, but I'd also like to get to the root cause. i.e. if this was somehow a bad Apple TV unit that messed up the HDMI ports, I'd also replace that too.

 

[highfigh]

I have a 7-year old Pioneer Elite SC-91 receiver. Over the past couple of weeks, I've made the following modifications:

1. Updated our Apple TV HD unit to the latest 4K version.
2. Updated HDMI cables (certified 2.1 spec). Brand of Zeskit (Amazon). I didn't have any literature on the older cables, so wanted to be sure everything was 2.1 compliant going forward.
3. Updated connected speakers with new wire. Made my own using 10 AWG (Voltive brand on Amazon) along with banana terminals.

Everything was well until yesterday morning. Our Apple TV 4K (connected to HDMI input 6 on the receiver) would rapidly change between snow (though some type of pattern exists in it), either correct output, or blue-tinted, and then no output at all. This repeats over and over:

View attachment 59021

Here's the strange thing:

• Thought it may be the new HDMI cable, so replaced with old. Same issue.
• Connected the Apple TV 4K to the nearby HDMI 5 input. Same issue.
• Connected older Apple TV HD to HDMI 6. Same issue.
• Connected both the Apple TV HD and Apple TV 4K to HDMI input 2. Works a-ok.
• Connected Nintendo Wii Switch to HDMI 6. Works a-ok

So somehow, Apple TV (both units) when connected to either HDMI 5 or 6 inputs will exhibit this problem. Has anyone seen such a thing? I know both Apple TVs were outputting 1080p 60 SDR signals. I cannot find the signal that the Wii Switch is putting out, but it should at least be 1080p 30 and being a gaming console, I would think it's actually 1080p 60 as well.

Is this some kind of levels issue with the HDMI signal? Perhaps Apple TV is putting out a weaker signal? And the receiver, being damaged now is struggling with those signals?

I'm now looking at replacing the receiver, but I'd also like to get to the root cause. i.e. if this was somehow a bad Apple TV unit that messed up the HDMI ports, I'd also replace that too.

Go into the AppleTV menu and change the resolution to 1080- if it works, you'll need to leave it that way or replace the AV receiver. Make sure the HDMI settings for the ports that don't work match the settings for the ones that do.

Did you disconnect the HDMI cable and change ports while the equipment was operating? If that resulted in good picture, I would guess that it's an EDID problem, which is still common in HDMI, unfortunately. Metra has a piece that can help with this.

 

[rsharp]

My current TV (Pioneer Kuro PRO-151FD) is only HD, so both the old and new Apple TVs are set to 1080p 60 SDR (only option available).

I believe I always had the equipment turned off when reconnecting things, but it's indeed possible I didn't always do that.

Thank you for the info on EDID. Just read through some troubleshooting steps and it appears I already did most of that with my testing. Definitey not a cable issue as they are very short (3 feet).

 

[j_garcia]

Looks like it is using HDMI 2.0a, not 2.1, which could indicate a EDID / handshake issue. Was the old AppleTV connected to 5 or 6 before and working?

 

[Trebdp83]

HDCP 2.2 is supported on just the first three HDMI ports on the SC-91 and any new devices need to be connected to one of them to avoid pass-through issues.

 

[rsharp]

Yes. Both the older Apple TV HD and new Apple TV 4K used HDMI input 6. We've had the 4K model for around 2 weeks now.

The last change was redoing the speaker wires. Can't imagine that doing anything, though the receiver was physically moved, so perhaps that led to some strains on the HDMI cables? Or, the port just finally gave out (theory is that it was previouisly damaged by reconnecting HDMI cables when source component and/or the receiver was not powered down).

Additionally, I know many receivers don't have the same HDMI bandwidth across all inputs. I thus have no idea if the current Pioneer receiver's ports 1 through 4 say are better than 5 and 6?

It's just really odd that the Wii Switch works a-ok with HDMI inputs 5 and 6 and the Apple TVs work with HDMI input 2 (I didn't try 1, 3 or 4).

 

[rsharp]

HDCP 2.2 is supported on just the first three HDMI ports on the SC-91 and any new devices need to be connected to one of them to avoid pass-through issues.
View attachment 59022

Ah, perhaps this is it. Strange though things started out fine. When looking for a replacement, I'll be sure to pick something that has HDCP 2.3 across all inputs if possible.

 

[highfigh]

Ah, perhaps this is it. Strange though things started out fine. When looking for a replacement, I'll be sure to pick something that has HDCP 2.3 across all inputs if possible.

Why not just move the AppleTV cable to a different port that works?

 

[rsharp]

Why not just move the AppleTV cable to a different port that works?

That's what we are planning on for the short term. There's another issue with the receiver in that it will no longer display its GUI menu at all on the TV. Workaround though is just to memorize that when the input says "BD", it will mean Apple TV and visa versa.

 

[highfigh]

That's what we are planning on for the short term. There's another issue with the receiver in that it will no longer display its GUI menu at all on the TV. Workaround though is just to memorize that when the input says "BD", it will mean Apple TV and visa versa.

Your HDMI cable isn't directional, is it?

I would unplug the AVR for about 1/2 hour to see if it needs a 'time out'. If that doesn't help, I would make a list of the settings and do a hard reset before setting it up again.

I needed info on an older TV and found that Pioneer still has the same support number as they did over 40 years ago, so you could contact them about this- 1-800-421-1404

 

[rsharp]

Your HDMI cable isn't directional, is it?

I would unplug the AVR for about 1/2 hour to see if it needs a 'time out'. If that doesn't help, I would make a list of the settings and do a hard reset before setting it up again.

I needed info on an older TV and found that Pioneer still has the same support number as they did over 40 years ago, so you could contact them about this- 1-800-421-1404

Nope; simple passive HDMI cables (copper). No directionality.

Interesting note on the timeout. Will try that later.

I have thought of doing a full system reset. Now, hopefully that would also fix the issue of the GUI setup menu no longer being output. Though if it doesn't, will be pure hell to re-configure. I don't think the front panel can be used to set up everything.

Thanks for the phone number!

 

[highfigh]

Nope; simple passive HDMI cables (copper). No directionality.

Interesting note on the timeout. Will try that later.

I have thought of doing a full system reset. Now, hopefully that would also fix the issue of the GUI setup menu no longer being output. Though if it doesn't, will be pure hell to re-configure. I don't think the front panel can be used to set up everything.

Thanks for the phone number!

Since that receiver has an ethernet port, connect it to your router (if it isn't already) and find its IP address. Then, open the browser on your computer and enter the address- hopefully, they had a GUI for setup. If you call Pioneer or look in the manual, you can find out if it's possible to set it up using a computer. Yamaha equipment can be set up this way, Denon used to be able to and I'm glad they had this because one of my customers recently lost two TVs to what I assume was a lightning strike and the AVR stopped outputting any video, so I logged in, saved the configuration, did a hard reset and loaded the file again- took less than ten minutes.

OK, I looked online for the manual and it shows 'Network Settings from a web browser' and part of it has to do with pressing the 'Status' button- press that and see if the OSD returns or if you see an option for turning that on and off.

Hdmi 4K/60P Signal Input Setting; Changing The Channel Level While Listening - Pioneer Elite SC-91 Operating Instructions Manual [Page 76]

Pioneer Elite SC-91 Manual Online: hdmi 4k/60p signal input setting, Changing The Channel Level While Listening. If The Tv To Be Connected Using Hdmi Supports 4K/60P, You Can Switch The 4K/60P Signal Input Setting In Accor- Dance With Tv Performance. Operation Is Performed On The Front...

www.manualslib.com

 

[rsharp]

I would unplug the AVR for about 1/2 hour to see if it needs a 'time out'. If that doesn't help, I would make a list of the settings and do a hard reset before setting it up again.

Solved! Wow, thank you for this suggestion. Kept received unplugged for over 1/2 hour, re-connected Apple TV 4K to its original HDMI input (#6), then powered everything on. No issues anymore.

Perhaps though we will later see the issues return as we play back certain content on the Apple TV, so should this happen again will then move to a new receiver/processor with HDCP 2.3 across all inputs.

Side note for others.. Sorry, didn't want to muddy things too much with my original post, but there are two other issues with the receiver right now that prevents me from doing solutions involving re-configuration:

First, even though I have wired Ethernet connected, I cannot connect either my computer (iMac Pro) or dedicated Pioneer remote app to it. The receiver is showing an IP address and port number, but it just won't connect.

Second, the receiver is no longer outputing its GUI menu to our TV.

So re-configuring the receiver must be done with the physical controls on the front panel only and it appears that not all options are avail there.

 

[highfigh]

Solved! Wow, thank you for this suggestion. Kept received unplugged for over 1/2 hour, re-connected Apple TV 4K to its original HDMI input (#6), then powered everything on. No issues anymore.

Perhaps though we will later see the issues return as we play back certain content on the Apple TV, so should this happen again will then move to a new receiver/processor with HDCP 2.3 across all inputs.

Side note for others.. Sorry, didn't want to muddy things too much with my original post, but there are two other issues with the receiver right now that prevents me from doing solutions involving re-configuration:

First, even though I have wired Ethernet connected, I cannot connect either my computer (iMac Pro) or dedicated Pioneer remote app to it. The receiver is showing an IP address and port number, but it just won't connect.

Second, the receiver is no longer outputing its GUI menu to our TV.

So re-configuring the receiver must be done with the physical controls on the front panel only and it appears that not all options are avail there.

What OS are you using? If Windows, are you using Win10? I would have to use a different computer to see how to find it, but in the Network area (in Win7 and before, clicking on the Start button revealed a menu that included 'Computer')- clicking on Computer revealed a window that had Favorites, Libraries, Home group, Computer and at the bottom, Network. Clicking on Network should show your AVR and if you click on Properties, it will show its IP address. Sometimes, my MusicCast can't be controlled via IP (the only way I use it) and if the address changes in the router, I can make the change to my Favorite or in the MusicCast app, as needed.

What IP address do you see in the Pioneer? If it starts with 169.xxx.xxx.xxx, the connection is bad.

 

[rsharp]

@highfigh As mentioned, I have an iMac Pro, so I'm using macOS.

I did mean though to post an addendum to this thread. Guess what now also works?

• The receiver is once again sending the setup GUI to the TV.
• The iOS remote control app once again connects to the receiver.
• Connecting to the receiver via its IP address on my Mac (with Safari browser) now works a-ok.

So beyond the HDMI issues with inputs 5 and 6, the receiver was really in a messed up state. Disconnecting from power for a while (at least 30 minutes) worked wonders.

 

[highfigh]

@highfigh As mentioned, I have an iMac Pro, so I'm using macOS.

I did mean though to post an addendum to this thread. Guess what now also works?

• The receiver is once again sending the setup GUI to the TV.
• The iOS remote control app once again connects to the receiver.
• Connecting to the receiver via its IP address on my Mac (with Safari browser) now works a-ok.

So beyond the HDMI issues with inputs 5 and 6, the receiver was really in a messed up state. Disconnecting from power for a while (at least 30 minutes) worked wonders.

I'm not telling you to buy a power conditioner (the products that are referred to as that are just surge protection), but I would look into some kind of surge suppression if you don't already have it. I use a Panamax M4000 and it shuts down below 90VAC and above 140VAC, which is good because sensitive electronic devices don't like being beaten over the head with 200+VAC. I needed to call the parent company of Panamax yesterday and while I was on the phone, I asked about the usable lifespan of that model and was told "They work until they don't". Mine has shut off during storms and a couple of times, when there was no storm- I have had big lightning strikes very close to my house and none of my equipment has had any kind of problem.

Best practice is to install whole house suppression at the panel for surges coming from outside, with local suppression for surges caused by switches and motors inside of the building. Also, the building's grounding should be checked, as well as some kind of protection on cable feeds from the provider.

 

[rsharp]

While I've been using Panamax products for a bit over 30 years, I've never used their units such as the M4000. I do currently though have all sensitive equipment plugged in to Panamax M8-AV-PRO power conditioners.

 

[Trebdp83]

So many times, unplugging a device for extended periods of time can restore functionality of one kind or another in the device. Other times, a factory reset may be necessary. Every single one of my devices has been unplugged and/or reset for network or HDMI issues at one time to deal with glitches.

Mixing new and older HDMI and network connectable devices will be a bit more troublesome than dealing with all new equipment with newer specs all around. It can still be done with just a few more settings tweaks.