Stolen by Canadian distributors

P

pam

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>For the same product as in US:

US/CAD rate: 1.33949 as of Feb 23rd.

Product      US MRSP    Cdn MRSP in CAD  Cdn MRSP in USD    Diff. MRSP (%)
DVD-5900  $2,000.00    $3,380.00             $2,523.35              126.17%
DVD-2900   $999.00      $1,870.00             $1,396.05              139.75%
DVM-2815   $469.00       $880.00                 $656.97              140.08%
DVM-1815   $369.00       $700.00                 $522.59              141.62%

AVR-5803   $4,400.00    $6,800.00            $5,076.56              115.38%
AVR-4802R $2,000.00    $3,380.00            $2,523.35              126.17%
AVR-3803   $1,199.00    $2,250.00            $1,679.74              140.10%
AVR-2803     $799.00     $1,450.00            $1,082.50              135.48%
AVR-1804     $499.00        $910.00               $679.36              136.14%

BTW, the Canadian Dollar increased by 18% since January 2003. Even if they would not have adjust the rate since a year ago. There is NO justification.

This is only MRSP. The street price in Canada is 194% more expensive than street price in US.

This is Denon. All others are the same.

For Canadians buying in Canada or from authorized dealer is crazy.
It starts from the distributor and goes all the way to the dealers. Greed, Greed, Greed.

In Canada we have laws against monopolistic behaviour but it does not seem to work. Anyway, we have free trade.</font>
 
P

pam

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>I also compared the best price I could find in US with the Canadian price:

Product &nbsp; &nbsp; Diff. with Best US Price (%)
DVD-5900 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;158.20%
DVD-2900 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;193.08%
DVD-2200 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;141.92%

AVR-5803 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;181.31%
AVR-4802R &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;167.19%
AVR-3803 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;180.47%
AVR-2803 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;149.31%
AVR-1804 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;197.76%

(all numbers converted in USD before calculating percentage)</font>
 
B

BroonsBane

Audioholic Intern
<font color='#000000'>Wow. Scary. &nbsp;You did alot of homework before making that post.
I was very against free trade back in the Mulroney era and still am. I have not seen any direct benefit from it at all.
Aside from that...compare Canadian manufactured speakers ie. Energy, Paradigm, PSB etc. They are all much less expensive in Canada vs the U.S. i'm not sure if that holds true for Canadian made amps etc ie. Bryston.</font>
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<font color='#000000'>NAFTA is one of the most perfidious plots unleashed by the crafty Canucks in modern times. I have proof, supressed by fellow travelers in our government, that Mulrooney sold the idea to Reagan by getting him drunk and stupefied with mass quantities of Molson's and poutine! And now, the master plan for Canadian economic dominance is under way, with the beachead being established by Tim Horton's donut shops (where, exactly, do Timbits come from, and what's in them? Huh??), and NHL expansion into places like South Carolina that hardly knew what ice was before that except as something to put in your RC Cola.

The high prices being paid by Canadian citizens for audio gear are helping to finance this pernicious policy.

Wake up, America!!!

OK, but seriously...Canada has always been an expensive country, but the usual weakness of the Canadian dollar vs. US tends to obscure that fact to most Americans. But I remember taking a trip thru Ontario some years back when the Canadian buck was near par, and we wound up cutting our trip short because it got so expensive just to eat, even at chain &quot;family&quot; restaurants! And when it comes to most big ticket items our northern neigbours get well and truly screwed, even before the GST and PST kicks in. Those of us in border areas have a simple barometer of the exchange rate: when the Canadian dollar is strong, the number of Canadian license plates in our shopping mall parking lots increases dramatically!

Gotta go. Must...have...Timbits....</font>
 
Clint DeBoer

Clint DeBoer

Banned
<font color='#000080'>Are there any additional import taxes on these products that would justify the difference? What is the incentive to buy from Canadian dealers?

Wow.</font>
 
B

BroonsBane

Audioholic Intern
<font color='#000000'>As I see it, there are no incentives for Americans to buy from Canadian dealers, other than if you factor in the exchange between the US and Canadian dollar. I'm not sure what Americans pay for duties on imported Candadian goods but for us Canadians it's about 6%. Products made in the US are duty free. Probably our only advantage as an average consumer to NAFTA.

Rip: it works conversely here. When the Canadian dollar is weak, we see a huge increase in US license plates ( i live 45 minutes from the US border)</font>
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
BroonsBane : Rip: it works conversely here. When the Canadian dollar is weak, we see a huge increase in US license plates ( i live 45 minutes from the US border)
I know. I'm one of them! Dinner in Windsor, Shakespeare in Stratford or a weekend in Toronto or Elora is a pretty good deal when the looney is weak.

Oh, and speaking of Canuck conspiracies to compromise our leaders and undermine America's rightful role as leader of the Free, er, entire World, I am about to blow the lid on the George W. Bush/Belinda Stronach scandal. It'll make Clinton/Lewinsky look like a neighborhood curling match. You heard it here first!</font>
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
<font color='#000000'>Wow! I love cute conservative chics
Does she own any guns?</font>
 
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zipper

zipper

Full Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Living north of Seattle,my buddies &amp; I used to drive up to Vancouver when the drinking age was 19(is it still?).There was a place called Outlaws that had a band upstairs &amp; a band downstairs.One of the coolest places I'd ever been to. We quickly learned about the exchange rate when we ordered a round (4) of drinks &amp; it was $20! this was back in &quot;79-&quot;80 &amp; we didn't make a lot of cash back then. The bars didn't mess with the exchange,a dollar was a dollar,no matter whose face was on it. 5%-6% beer was pretty cool though.Thought gas was cheap,until we figured out it was sold by the friggin liter,not gallon.

&nbsp;Only reason we go up now is to get 222's over the counter.Not worth the hassle at the border.</font>
 
Clint DeBoer

Clint DeBoer

Banned
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zipper : <font color='#000000'>Thought gas was cheap,until we figured out it was sold by the friggin liter,not gallon.</font>
<font color='#000080'>Now THAT is funny. &nbsp;
</font>
 
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J

JAB

Audioholic Intern
<font color='#000000'>Yes, we get hammered in Canada on imported electronics badly. I believe most of the extra difference is because of volume and the demands from our government's so called protection agencies. With the population of California larger than the whole of Canada, Yamaha U.S. (for example) is going to receive a lot more attention from Yamaha, Japan than Yamaha, Canada. In Canada, all electrical devices are tested by a government lab known as the CSA (I believe the American equivalent is UL) For this test the manufacturers foot the bill for every model submitted whether the unit is approved or not. Unfortunately for us, the CSA demands are different than the UL specs, so a separate costly run must be made for the puny Canadian market compared to the humongous U.S. one. It costs money to ramp-up a tiny Canadian run and are we are paying for it. Not only that, we get a crappy 2 year warranty on the Yamaha Z9 (I have complained bitterly to my Yamaha dealer who passed this on to Yamaha, Danada) compared to the U.S. 5 year one. Yamaha U.S. has even changed their warranties to include models as far back as the RXV-1!!

Yep, volume and competion = lower prices.

Al</font>
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<font color='#000000'>No more lame jokes about Canadian conspiracies, promise!

JAB has some reasonable sounding explanations, but it doesn't seem to apply to all imported goods. Cars, whether imported or North American seem to be fairly comparable in price in Canada and the US, for example. But on the other hand I suspect that auto safety and emissions standards are pretty similar in both countries, if only to keep GM, Ford and DCX happy since they have substantial investments in Canadian plants.

I know the CBC has a show called &quot;Marketplace&quot; that I've seen a few times. Wonder if they've ever done a story on the subject?

BTW, everything I know about Canadian politics comes from watching &quot;Royal Canadian Air Farce&quot; and &quot;This Hour Has 22 Minutes&quot;. I like the cute new gal on RCAF!</font>
 
J

JAB

Audioholic Intern
<font color='#000000'>The reason cars are comparible in price is because the U.S. and Canadian government cooked up a deal years ago (before the so called free trade agreement) called the Auto Pact. This allows tax and tariff free cross border shipments of automobiles and related car manufacturing parts.This system works pretty well, as long as the U.S. and Canadian exchange rates are close. Not long ago, a lot of cars coming from the U.S. and Canadian manufacturing plants have been bought by Canadian dealers in Canadian funds and resold to U.S. dealers in American funds. Because of the low valued Canadian buck (which has recently increased over 20%) the U.S. dealers could buy the cars cheaper through Canadian dealers than their own U.S. distributors!! Needless to say, the big three in the U.S. lowered the hammer on the U.S. dealers advising them that their dealership franchise agreements would be terminated if this practice didn't instantly stop. The Canadian dealers were also read the riot act, and the rumour in the city I live in is that a local Chrysler dealership suddenly changed ownership because of lack of compliance.

Yes Martha, there is a grey market in the auto business as well!!

A CBC Market Place investigation is a good suggestion - send them an email! And while we are talking about price gouging, how about the insane charge for new ink cartridges for computer printers, H.P. being one of the biggest offenders!!

Al</font>
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
<font color='#8D38C9'>At least there's a reason the printer carts are so expensive: &nbsp;they sell the printers at a loss and make it up on ink. &nbsp;For folks that don't do an immense amount of printing it's not a bad deal. &nbsp;For those of us that use tons of ink, it's a pretty crappy deal. &nbsp;Fortunately, HP carts are extremely easy &amp; cheap to refill yourself (I haven't ever bought a new cart for my HP- I'm still refilling the ones it came with).

Epson is more of a screw-job: &nbsp;their carts have an electronic chip that &quot;counts&quot; ink droplets as they're dispensed. &nbsp;Once the cartridge &quot;knows&quot; it's empty, it won't print any more even after you refill the ink.

Luckily, though, the chip resetter only costs $17!
</font>
 
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Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
JAB : <font color='#000000'>Not long ago, a lot of cars coming from the U.S. and Canadian manufacturing plants have been bought by Canadian dealers in Canadian funds and resold to U.S. dealers in American funds. Because of the low valued Canadian buck (which has recently increased over 20%) the U.S. dealers could buy the cars cheaper through Canadian dealers than their own U.S. distributors!! Needless to say, the big three in the U.S. lowered the hammer on the U.S. dealers...</font>
<font color='#000000'>I remember that. It was a pretty big story here in Detroit, as you can imagine.

Didn't know about the Auto Pact, though. That explains a lot.</font>
 
P

pam

Audioholic
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
hawke : <font color='#000000'>Are there any additional import taxes on these products that would justify the difference? What is the incentive to buy from Canadian dealers?

Wow.</font>
<font color='#000000'>Wow... I did not expect so much reaction.

If we buy from Canada, we add the tax to the amount.

If we buy from US, we add the tax to the amount.

The population is not the problem. Toronto has 4 million people livng down there. Shipping to a store from Los Angelas to New York is the same as shipping from Vancouver to Montreal.

The problem remains the greed of Canadian distributors.
When my friends and family will jump in the Home Theater I know what I will recommend.

If anything, prices should be less expensive here because we make less money than in US. Normally, things should cost less in Canada than in US like they should cost less in US than in Japan. Paying people in Canada for doing the job (distribution and selling) is a little bit cheaper than in the US.

Canadian companies have been greedy. This is part of the reason they are less competitive than US: they invest less and put more money in the pocket and less in new technology.</font>
 
P

pam

Audioholic
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
BroonsBane : <font color='#000000'>You did alot of homework before making that post.</font>
<font color='#000000'>Yes.

Also, the alignment was particularly long because the original data is in Excel and the cut and paste did not work. For those who are interested, I have the original xls file for those interested, it is more complete: Denon can not compete in Canada.

Take care

BTW, does anyone have a simple way to cut and paste from Excel?</font>
 
P

pam

Audioholic
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
BroonsBane : <font color='#000000'>As I see it, there are no incentives for Americans to buy from Canadian dealers, other than if you factor in the exchange between the US and Canadian dollar.</font>
<font color='#000000'>Broons

The USD-CAD rate was already factored in the number you saw. So when you read that a product is 197% it meas that what you pay 100$ US is 197$ US in Canada (or 262$ Canadian).</font>
 
P

pam

Audioholic
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
Rip Van Woofer : <font color='#000000'>
I am about to blow the lid on the George W. Bush/Belinda Stronach scandal. It'll make Clinton/Lewinsky look like a neighborhood curling match. You heard it here first!</font>
<font color='#000000'>Hey

I have heard a lot of women who were finding Bill Clinton very sexy. Never heard that of George WMD Bush.

If you have more information please keep me posted.</font>
 
P

pam

Audioholic
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
Rip Van Woofer : <font color='#000000'>NAFTA is one of the most perfidious plots unleashed by the crafty Canucks in modern times.</font>
<font color='#000000'>Hi Rip

Nafta was good for US and Canada. The US dollar was too strong compared to their real value. Partly because it was the only reference money. Now the Euro has put the US dollar to a more realistic value. Also those rich Arabs have remove part of their assets from US.

The real problem facing US is not Canada. We have approximatly the same standard of living.

I am a computer specialist and the real competition is from India. Also China is producing engineers faster than they are producing DVD.

This time, I don't see a simple solution because all those countries are producing human ressources (not people, human ressources) that competes with all those graduated persons in US (and Canada). This is a problem that we share with the US.

BTW, isn't it the US who pushed to included Mexico in the free trade. There was no interest for Canadians

We are in the same boat Rip...</font>
 

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