Stereo power amp for my RTI12's. Also how do I connect it?

[guitarplyrstevo]

I am considering getting a stereo power amplifier for my two RTi12's. I currently have an Onkyo 805 and don't feel it is moving enough air in the RTi12's. What are your recommendations on a clean and powerful amp?

I have been looking into the Behringer EP2500 but am skeptical of its weight. Many of you talk about the Emotiva XPA-2 power amplifier and talk many good things about it but how would it compare to the Behringer? What would the 250wpc Emotiva amp provide that the 450wpc Behringer would not?

Also how would I connect it to my towers? I read a review on the RTi12's saying that you should provide about 150 watts high and 250-300 watts low to each tower. How would I wire the tower to get two separate wattage's?

I would like a decent amplifier without spending a huge amount of money, especially since I got my 805 for $200.

 

[adk highlander]

The amp will connect from the rca preout left and right on the back of the 805 to the rca left and right inputs on the amp. You would then connect your speaker wire to the amp and you are all set. If the amp has 12v triggers like the Emotiva XPA-2 then you can set up your receiver to turn on the amp when it comes on. I don't believe the 2500 has triggers so you will have to manually turn it on.

The information you bring up about the power to the high and low is called bi-amping where you send power separtely to the tweeters and woofers of the speaker. Here is a link that explains bi-amping vs. bi-wiring and whether or not it really makes a difference - Link.

As to if the 250w vs. 450w will make a difference I think that depends on the SPL's you are trying to reach. If you play at very high SPL's then yes it will be higher with the 450w amp but at more reasonable volumes it will be less noticable. Adding an amp will give you more headroom to handle the dynamic changes in the movie or music over the on-board amps in many recievers. The 805 has a very good amp section so you may or may not hear huge benefits going with an external amp.

 

[Chopin_Guy]

The setup of the amp will be a simple pre-out connection as ADK mentioned above...

But I will mention some things that I know I said in another one of your posts that was discussing the 'better bass response' of the RTiA9 vs. the RTi12:

First off, 1 watt from a 140 watt amplifier (as in your VERY capable SR805) is the same as 1 watt coming from a 500 watt amplifier....the only difference is the dynamic headroom and overall maximum SPL that can be reached. So if you are trying to get your RTi12s to play louder with more headroom than an amp MIGHT be an answer. However, know that doubling your power say from your current 140 to 280 will only yield you a 6bd gain. Doubling power in no way yields a speaker that will play twice as loud...

Next item, as to wanting to run different amounts of power to the low and high ranges via the binding posts on the rear....I imagine you want to run the 140 from your AVR amp to the highs and the more power external amp to the lows. I would have to imagine that you are going to wind up with an unbalanced range of sound by doing this as each driver is not being independently controlled by a crossover--therefore you might end up with a weird mix of bass/treble vs. highs...I would not recommend doing this...What you are trying to do is something that is done in VERY expensive high-end systems with each driver independently crossed-over and amplified...this cannot be done with the RTi12 as everything is internal stock from Polk...

Finally, from what I have seen from your other posts, it seems like you are simply looking for better bass response....You should just save your money for a better SUBWOOFER as that is what they are designed to do...I will put my last post from your A9 vs. RTI12 thread again:

""Personally I wouldn't worry about the bass issue that much....that is what the subwoofer is for...You have plenty of juice coming from your AVR and I understand the perception of what one might *think* the RTi12 should sound like and what they really will sound like---and this judgement is nothing against the speakers, as I am very happy with my RTi12s...

Despite the fact they each house 3 x 7" drivers....how much bass might one expected from a 7" driver--especially drivers that aren't independently amplified and crossed-over. I am sure most of what you heard had to do with room/acoustic characteristics and settings on the SR875 with them. All in all, however, the RTi12 is a capable speaker and will do anything you ask of it within reason....""

So, I think you will better off putting your resources elsewhere...This issue RTi12s comes up so much and it is almost comical at this point. But they are in no way designed to give you bass like a Def Tech BP7000sc is designed to. You have nice speakers, let them do what they were engineered to do and simply look to a better sub for your bass needs....Sorry for the long post....this is just my two-cents worth...

 

[jostenmeat]

If the amp has 12v triggers like the Emotiva XPA-2 then you can set up your receiver to turn on the amp when it comes on. I don't believe the 2500 has triggers so you will have to manually turn it on.

Unfortunately, Onkyo receivers seem to lack a trigger that works in zone 1. So it almost doesn't matter what the amp can do, outside of rigging one up of course.

Forget "passive biamping".

 

[guitarplyrstevo]

The setup of the amp will be a simple pre-out connection as ADK mentioned above...

But I will mention some things that I know I said in another one of your posts that was discussing the 'better bass response' of the RTiA9 vs. the RTi12:

First off, 1 watt from a 140 watt amplifier (as in your VERY capable SR805) is the same as 1 watt coming from a 500 watt amplifier....the only difference is the dynamic headroom and overall maximum SPL that can be reached. So if you are trying to get your RTi12s to play louder with more headroom than an amp MIGHT be an answer. However, know that doubling your power say from your current 140 to 280 will only yield you a 6bd gain. Doubling power in no way yields a speaker that will play twice as loud...

Next item, as to wanting to run different amounts of power to the low and high ranges via the binding posts on the rear....I imagine you want to run the 140 from your AVR amp to the highs and the more power external amp to the lows. I would have to imagine that you are going to wind up with an unbalanced range of sound by doing this as each driver is not being independently controlled by a crossover--therefore you might end up with a weird mix of bass/treble vs. highs...I would not recommend doing this...What you are trying to do is something that is done in VERY expensive high-end systems with each driver independently crossed-over and amplified...this cannot be done with the RTi12 as everything is internal stock from Polk...

Finally, from what I have seen from your other posts, it seems like you are simply looking for better bass response....You should just save your money for a better SUBWOOFER as that is what they are designed to do...I will put my last post from your A9 vs. RTI12 thread again:

""Personally I wouldn't worry about the bass issue that much....that is what the subwoofer is for...You have plenty of juice coming from your AVR and I understand the perception of what one might *think* the RTi12 should sound like and what they really will sound like---and this judgement is nothing against the speakers, as I am very happy with my RTi12s...

Despite the fact they each house 3 x 7" drivers....how much bass might one expected from a 7" driver--especially drivers that aren't independently amplified and crossed-over. I am sure most of what you heard had to do with room/acoustic characteristics and settings on the SR875 with them. All in all, however, the RTi12 is a capable speaker and will do anything you ask of it within reason....""

So, I think you will better off putting your resources elsewhere...This issue RTi12s comes up so much and it is almost comical at this point. But they are in no way designed to give you bass like a Def Tech BP7000sc is designed to. You have nice speakers, let them do what they were engineered to do and simply look to a better sub for your bass needs....Sorry for the long post....this is just my two-cents worth...

I am still somewhat confused on why the A9's sounded better than my RTi12's. I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt and told myself that it was the room acoustics, but I tried it again and my co worker and I was just so impressed with the bass response of the A9. I kept checking the speaker settings to make sure that the subwoofer was off and it was. I don't believe that it is the actual speaker itself because I ran the same setup with the RTi8's and I still had really nice bass response, which led me to thinking it was the amp. I know the Onkyo 876 only has 10wpc more, but there has to be something in that amp that is giving it the ability to push the speakers more while keeping it at listening volumes; that is why I thought of getting an external amp.

Besides room acoustics, what are the other things that could possibly play a part in getting these speakers moving more because I am convinced that both sounds are a night and day difference. Could it be the way it was set up at my work: blu ray player connected via HDMI to the Onkyo 876? Would that give it a much fuller sound compared to the setup I have at home: computer connected via optical and I am using my computer drives.

 

[zhimbo]

I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt and told myself that it was the room acoustics, but I tried it again and my co worker and I was just so impressed with the bass response of the A9.

When you say you "tried it again" - do you mean you listened to the speakers in the same location you had previously? If so, you have acquired no additional information to make any sort of judgment.

If you want to test for room response issues vs. amp issues vs. speaker issues, can you arrange to listen to both sets of speakers in the same room driven by YOUR receiver? With the information you now have, you can't differentiate between room vs. amp issues.

Unless something is defective with your receiver, it's not clear why there should be much difference between the two Onkyos. However, we KNOW room acoustics are simply HUGELY important for bass response. I have a pair of Wharfedale bookshelf speakers that shake the room they're in with their bass response. Of course, the room they're in is only somewhat larger than a walk-in closet, and they're getting all sorts of bass reinforcement from their positioning. They sound nothing like they did in their previous set up.

Regarding the source: what kind of format is your music in on your computer? Are you playing CDs and just funneling the output digitally to the receiver? Or are you talking mp3s, and at what bitrate? Or some other format?
ADDED BY EDIT: I looked through your posts, and see you're playing CDs, and sending a digital signal to your receiver (correct me if I'm wrong). In that case, room acoustics is far and away the leading contender.

 

[guitarplyrstevo]

Regarding the source: what kind of format is your music in on your computer? Are you playing CDs and just funneling the output digitally to the receiver? Or are you talking mp3s, and at what bitrate? Or some other format?
ADDED BY EDIT: I looked through your posts, and see you're playing CDs, and sending a digital signal to your receiver (correct me if I'm wrong). In that case, room acoustics is far and away the leading contender.

Well at my work, we have this cd called Alive with various music and movie clips. The song that I chose to demonstrate both setups was called "Omar Hakim Listen Up" which is recorded in DTS 96/24. I would put the cd in the sony blu ray connected to the onkyo 876 and polk a9. Then I would take the cd home and place it in my computer cd rom drive then output it through the optical to my 805.

Also, what do you mean by "In that case, room acoustics is far and away the leading contender."

 

[skers_54]

Did the 876 have Dynamic EQ engaged? It enhances the low frequencies significantly at volumes lower than reference. Its a very noticable effect that could be responsible for your perceptions. The 805 doesn't have it, according to Onkyo's website. I would check the 876 and see if it's engaged. If it is, turn it off and then compare.

 

[zhimbo]

Also, what do you mean by "In that case, room acoustics is far and away the leading contender."

Meaning 1) the source at home should be fine; and 2) there should be no detectable difference between the the amp sections of the 805 and the 876 except perhaps at the most extreme volume levels. By process of elimination, room acoustics is the most likely candidate for the apparently large differences you're hearing.

Or, possibly some setting somewhere in one receiver or the other is making the difference, but I have no further suggestions there. I'm still more a student than a master at this. But I do know the power of the room on bass response.

 

[PENG]

Well at my work, we have this cd called Alive with various music and movie clips. The song that I chose to demonstrate both setups was called "Omar Hakim Listen Up" which is recorded in DTS 96/24. I would put the cd in the sony blu ray connected to the onkyo 876 and polk a9. Then I would take the cd home and place it in my computer cd rom drive then output it through the optical to my 805.

Also, what do you mean by "In that case, room acoustics is far and away the leading contender."

Be careful, I know for a fact some low cost DVD, CD, or CD ROM player cannot play CDs well. I actually own one DVD player that can do a good job with DVD but when asked to play a CD it will make my towers sound like the woofers suddenly disappeared. You should try to compare the two systems using the same BD player.

Other than that, you may want to read some of TLS's post about the RTi12. I remember in one of his posts he tried to explain why you cannot get much bass out of the RTi12 because of their crossovers.

 

[guitarplyrstevo]

Be careful, I know for a fact some low cost DVD, CD, or CD ROM player cannot play CDs well. I actually own one DVD player that can do a good job with DVD but when asked to play a CD it will make my towers sound like the woofers suddenly disappeared. You should try to compare the two systems using the same BD player.

Other than that, you may want to read some of TLS's post about the RTi12. I remember in one of his posts he tried to explain why you cannot get much bass out of the RTi12 because of their crossovers.

Oh I know. You probably read that from one of the many posts he has replied from me.

Well I am going to try a stand alone cd player using HDMI and see if it makes any difference.

 

[PENG]

Oh I know. You probably read that from one of the many posts he has replied from me.

Now I remember, sorry about that.

 

[Cpt.America]

Listen.. unles you are going to use the same receiver with the same settings... in the same room... at the same listening position... 100% of your efforts is nothing but a waste of time. These are the exact same things that were told to you in another thread I recall a week or two ago.

HEre is what you do... take your speakers with you to whereever those rtia9s are setup, put the speakers side by side... and just swap speaker cables from the backs of the speakers back and fourth. That is the only way you will be able to compare them. That, or take a pair of a9s to your house and A/B them next to your 12s.

you are comparing an apple to an orange then wondering why these fruits taste so different.

 

[Sherardp]

I use a D-Sonic Magnum 1000S to make my RTi12s scream. If you need the headroom pull the trigger on an amp. Outlaw M2200 monoblocks should do the trick for you as well and save you some coin.